We are not Turks; We are Iranians Options

[Persian]

another iranian Azari view. for those who are interested in listening to what iranian azaris have to say:

Just a misunderstanding
We are not Turks; we are Iranians

By Megabiz Irani
August 11, 2003
The Iranian

Hi, I am Megabiz a 22-year-old college student at University of Florida. After reading the articles in ethnic section, I wrote this article about the origin of Azeri people for enlightenment of your interested readers.

The memories of my childhood and teenage years are unforgettable; even though, I am now far away from my homeland Iran. As an Azeri who was born and raised in Tehran, I remember how native Tehranis would ask my father about his accent to be sure he was a Turk; his response was always negative. He would say "I am an Azeri not a Turk!" Proud of his Azeri heritage yet he never forced me to learn his mother tongue; he believed it was a sub-Turkic dialect that had penetrated into Azeri.

In the past few weeks, it has been a debate on Iranian.com about Azeris' right to read and write in their native language and to celebrate their customs as minorities in Iran. First as an Azeri, I would like to ask my own people what it means to be a minority? Since this term entered Iran in the modern era from European political system, I refer to Oxford dictionary to define the word "minority": minorities are groups of people who are different from the entire population of a country in race or religion.

Having said this, I want to know what the origin of our race or the word Azeri is? Are Azeri people Turks? To answer this question, we should start from the ancient history of Iranian plateau. The word Azeri itself is literary related to "Azar", which means fire in Pahlavi language. The names of Sasanid shah of Iran Azar-Narsi and the Iranian vizier Azar-Barin, are just two examples of this fact.

On the other hand, this word does not have any linguistic relation to Turkish whatsoever. This region was perhaps called Azerbaijan because of presence of many Zoroastrian fire temples in Sasanid era. Also, the word "Azerbaijan" could be an Arabic version of the ancient Persian term "Atropatekan", which was one of Iranian provinces in Achaemenid Empire. Since the letter "P" does not exist in Arabic, it seems Arab invaders called this land Azerbaijan as they changed the words "Sepahan" to "Isfahan" and "Parsa" to "Fars".

Let me remind you, Turks entered the Middle East and Iran in mediaeval period, and as it was said before Azeri people are not ethnically related to Turks; Azeris are just another Iranian group as are Persians, Kurds, Lurs, Baluchs and others. Even at the beginning of their migration to Iran from Central Asia, Aryans were a collection of different tribes and clans.

From the Aryan origin, Medes, Achaemenid (old-Persians), Parthians, and Sasanid (mid-Persians) ruled Iran respectively before Arab invasion. Do Azeris know that the legendary Iranian hero Babak Khoramdin had an Iranian name? Where were Turks when he rejected the cruel Arab caliph?

The first time that Turks entered our history was the establishment of Ghaznavid dynasty in modern Afghanistan. Turks were just imported army generals in Samanid court who later became leaders of Eastern Iran. Later in Seljuk dynasty, Turks invaded Iran and became the new rulers. Ironically, their capital was Isfahan, and they later became one of promoters of Persian (Iranian) culture.

The current dialect spoken in Azerbaijan has been mixed with so many Turkish words because of the presence of neighboring Ottoman Turks (modern Turkey), but it doesn't mean that Azeris are ethnically Turks. This basically means since Farsi has borrowed many words from Arabic, Persians are ethnically Arab.

Iranians until 100 years ago had forgotten the existence of Elamite, Mede, Persian, and Parthian kingdoms in ancient Iran, so how can we say we know everything about our history when our history is corrupted by Westerners. The main problem is our inability to distinguish the word "Persian" from "Iranian". Being an Iranian doesn't mean you are a Persian since there are other Iranians.

Farsi is a division of Indo-Iranian languages as are Old Persian, middle Persian, Tajiki Persian, Dari Persian, Kurdish, Baluchi, Pashto, Ossetic, Avestian, Parthian (Pahlavi), Bactrian, Sogdian and Khotanese. Farsi itself is a version of Pahlavi language spoken in Parthian and Sasanid era, which was first developed in Eastern Iran after Arab-Muslim invasion and later was adopted by all Iranians.

During long history of Iran all Iranians have contributed to Iranian civilization. Many Azeri poets like Ohadi Maragheyi, Nizami Ganjavi, Sheikh Mahmod Shabestari, and Shams Tabrizi created masterworks in Farsi, which is truly the native language of Iran. If Westerners have Romeo and Joliet, thanks to Nizami we have khosro va Shirin. By the way, was Khosro-Parviz a Turkish sultan or an Iranian shah?

The restoration of Iranian Empire in modern era under the leadership of an ambitious 15-year-old boy known as Shah Ismail of Saffavid is the most significant Azeri contribution to their native land Iran. As we know, shah Abbas the great moved the capital to Isfahan to save Iranian integrity from Ottomans' danger, and this meant that there was no racial difference among Iranians. If Azeris were Turk, why didn't they join Ottoman Turks against Saffavids? Do we remember how our fathers sacrificed their lives with bare hands in battle of Chaldoran to save Iranian independence from her Turkish enemies?

What is the difference between a Language and a dialect? People talk about Azeri language, but ignore the fact that any language has a script. What is this imaginary Turkish script that we have never seen? Are we going to choose Latin as our script and call it our native script? Does Azeri dialect (it's better to call Turkish since it has borrowed many words from Turkish) have any script like Persian language? How could one communicate when he/she travels around the country since Iranians speak different dialects in different regions?

The Persian language has played a unifying role in Iran, and we are naïve to undermine its historical importance. It has been the official language of Iran before and After Islam, and no dialect is dynamic enough to substitute the language of our ancestors. Farsi belongs to all Iranians including Azeris and Persians.

We should come to the conclusion that we are not Turks; we are Iranians. At last, I hope everyone quits making fun Azeris. Because one has an accent, it doesn't mean he/she is an alien. Any region has its own accent like Shirazi, Isfahani, Tehrani, khorasani, Gilani and etc. This is the beauty of a language and should be appreciated. It's time for Iranians to think beyond their regional interest and hatred in order to promote their heritage and culture to exist in 21st century as a strong and unified nation. Long live Iran and God bless all Iranians.
http://www.iranian.com/Opinion/2003/August/Azeri7/

[Kizilarslan]

Azerbaycan is the gate of Turks from east of Caspian to west. Azerbaycan is the Caspian gate of TURAN.
Iran is a Turkish country, Tehran is an Azeri otag. Most of the population is Turks in your damn capital.
Iran's official language should be Turkish, there are more Turks then Ehl-i Acem.
TURAN is the holy purpose of us Turks, and Iran is our next otag.

TANRI TÜRK'Ü KORUSUN!

TURAN isn't a dream, it is just a late JUSTICE. Death to the enemies of TURK and enemies of TURAN!!!

[BIGTURK]

Haha I love this man, EY YIGIT YUREKLI TURK

Whats wrong with what he is saying PERSI more people in IRAN speak Turkish the Persian its just a Soviet Game for Iran to use PERSIAN, theirs more Turkish Speakers then Persians in your own country haha 1000 YEARS of Turks in Iran the day is comming when the Azeris, Kasgay, Hamadan, Turkmen TURKS unite revolt bring our language back in and get in Control of OUR PEOPLE WHO ARE THE MAJORITY you can rule the non Turk areas if you wish or happily join us its up to you but you cant stop the movement GAMOH YES GAMOH GUNEY AZERBEYCAN MILLI OYUNUS HARERKETI, WAT U GONNA DO HOW U GONNA STOP 30 MIILION , you think Megabiz Irani a Persian again from your PERSIAN website again using SOVIET LIES against our people can stop this. You cant hide the truth man the truth always gets out, TURKS ARE RISING, WHO CAN AND EVER HAS STOPPED THE MOVEMENT OF TURKS ASK YOURSELF THIS!!!



wHAT IS THIS THEN PERSI BOY


Azerbaijani Turks and Iranian Revolutions

• The Iranian government fears that the Azerbaijani Turks would once
again lead a pro-democracy uprising against the regime

• Last century saw four major revolutions in Iran, all of which were led
by Azerbaijani Turks

• 1905-1911—Constitutional Revolution began in Tebriz, then center of
South Azerbaijan

• 1920—Pro-democracy revolution under Sheykh Muhammed Khyabbani
- Also began in Tebriz and South Azerbaijan was independent for 6 months

- Soviet Union and Iran jointly suppressed this state, killings tens of
thousands of Azerbaijani Turks

• 1945-46—the Azeri Turks were able to establish a state is South
Azerbaijan
- This state lasted one year and again, the Soviet Union and Iran put it
down and in the process killed 40,000 people
- Within that one year Turkish radio stations were established and
Tebriz began to become an urban center
- Turkish schools were opened and books began to be published in
Azerbaijani Turkish
- After suppressing the revolution, the Iranian government gathered all
of the Turkish publications that had been published during the year and
publicly burned them
- All the activists who worked for the South Azerbaijani state were
hunted down and persecuted
- As a result the Azerbaijani rights movement went into hibernation for
50 years

• 1979—Islamic Revolution was spearheaded by the Azerbaijani Turkish
majority in Tebriz
- Islamic governance had not been tried before and Azerbaijani Turks
believed that the Shah’s regime was so repressive that an inclusive
democratic regime would establish democracy under Allah
- The result was worse than before


History of Azerbaijani Turks in Iran

• Since Islam’s introduction to the region Azerbaijani Turks have been
in power in Iran

• Until 70 years ago Azerbaijani Turks made up 51.5% of the population
of Iran

• Despite the fact that Azerbaijani Turkish population has increased we
are told by the regime that it has actually decreased to 25%

• We believe Azerbaijani Turks are the majority ethic group in Iran
today with about 32 million—this number goes up to 34 million with the 2
million Turkmen living near the Caspian
- 20 million live in South Azerbaijan
- 10 million in Tehran—the capital is 70% Azerbaijani Turks
- 2 million Kashkaii Turks
- 2 million Horasan Turks


Negative Assimilation

• Even though we are the largest group in Iran, all nine state
television channels are in Farsi

• All 100 radio stations are in Farsi

• We gave the world many writers and poets, including Dede Gorgud
(Turkic world’s equivalent of Homer); UNESCO
declared 1999 to be the Year of Dede Gorgud.

• In the Iranian university system there are 200 linguistic departments
for Farsi, but not a single one for Turkish. Not even in Tebriz

• Even Iran’s uncivilized and undemocratic constitution says that all
languages of minorities may be practiced outside the public sphere

• Article 15 of the Iranian constitution allows Azerbaijani Turkish to
be used in South Azerbaijan, but this law only exists on paper

• Shah Pahlavi called the Azerbaijani Turks “Donkeys”

• Fars chauvinists still use this slur today

• Pahlavi banned the Azerbaijani Turkish language from schools and would
literally muzzle students who tried to use the language, or who used it
by accident

• Our only fault is wanting to live like humans and speak our language


History of the GAMOH Movement

• I was elected to the Majlis in 1995 with 600,000 votes in Tebriz

• My platform was bringing democracy to Iran, and under article 15,
attaining cultural and linguistic rights for the Azerbaijani Turks

• I protested the practices of the regime which violated our rights and
demanded that all articles of the constitution that respect our rights
be upheld

• I went to schools, homes, mosques and other public places to say that
this regime is abusing Islam; Islam does not allow torture

• The regime believed I was going to “awaken” South Azerbaijan

• Officials of the regime wanted me to resign on Tebriz radio, but I
would not

• I was then arrested and tortured—I was hit on the head with the butt
of a rifle, which damaged my neurological nerve. It has left me
partially paralyzed on the left side of my body and blind in my left eye

• They said that they would stop the torture if I declared on television
that I was an agent of Turkey and Israel

• I was jailed three times which led Amnesty International to condemn
Iran two years in a row for human rights violations.

• Thanks to the international attention, and a letter from UN Secretary
General Kofi Annan, I was finally let out of jail

• Because I did not give in, the National Movement of South Azerbaijan
(GAMOH) has become very strong over the last 7 years

• Once a year we have a gathering at Babek castle (Babek is a liberty
symbol of South Azerbaijan)

• This year the festival was held on July 4-5 and about 1.2 million
people showed up despite ten checkpoints established by the regime to
discourage attendees

• Our multi-million member movement is spearheaded by700,000 Azerbaijani
Turkish students

• For the first time in Iran’s history, the Azerbaijani Turkish students
and intellectual elites are separating themselves from the Farsi elite

• Our movement has communication lines with Kurds, Arabs, and other
minorities that have been assimilated by the dominant Farsi culture

• We have established over 1,000 committees in towns, villages and
cities

• These committees address the cultural needs of the Azerbaijani Turk
population

• After six years of only using our pens and tongues, some in the
movement are complaining that all we do is talk
- Some of them have begun to form “defense” committees

http://www.csis.org/ruseura/caucasus



Who is this then ha

Mahmudali Chohraganli


Professor Chohraganli is the leader of SANAM. He was born in the city of Shabistar of the Southern Azerbaijan, 1958. He finished his secondary and higher education here. He finished the school of Teacher Education. In 1980, as a teacher, he taught at the first schools of the villages of the Southern Azerbaijan.
Working as a teacher, he was admitted to the faculty of Literature of the Tabriz University. Afterwards, he hoad been on the bachelor's and the Doctor's degrees of the Tehran University. He was at the posts of the member of the Higher Scientific Staff of the Tehran and Tabriz Universities and the teacher. He was the Professor of the Azerbaijan Republic National Sciences Academy on the Philological Sciences. Since 1990 he has started to the secret researches connected to the national-human rights at the Universities of Tabriz and Tehran.

Although he had achieved the opening of the specialty of the Literature of the Azerbaijani Turkish language in Iran, the regime closed those courses. In 1995 he participated in the parliamentary elections held in Iran.

He was the first person who supported the national rights of the Azerbaijanis in the open manner. That is why in spite of the fact that he had collected 600 thousand votes, he was refused to be let in the Parliament and he was arrested. He has been in prison or the home condition for a long time. He has passed a brain infarction during his presence in prison for 2 times under torture. He was released for the purpose of treatment by the regime in Iran.
Since 2002 Europe, America and Turkey has made official meetings in Azerbaijan. The officials of Europe made a number of high-class meetings with the parliament officials, Walter Schumer, the secretary general of the Council of Europe, the US State Department, the Congress, Senate and the White House. Now he is on tour to America. He is the leader of the SANAM founded in 1995. He is the leader of the Southern Azerbaijan National Movement .

Your lies dont work with us Persi boy.

[Tipton]

"TURAN isn't a dream..."

interesting...maybe someone would care to explain what we consider Turan: http://www.hunmagyar.org/turan.html#turan

[BIGTURK]

Turan is not very well known and it wont be, it will recieve no media attention most the people will never hear about it but those who are in Central Asia and Turkish areas know soon the time is comming. We dont wanna over promote this or be overestimated. iT is always better to be underestimated, sunthing the Armenians havent figured out yet.

The truth is you wont know alot about it till it happens which is quite soon, the work has been put in and its almost there.

Anyway

Peace

There is no point even argueing about Azeris, they are Turks they speak Turkish they say they are Turkish they live in Iran this changes nothing, Turks in London are still Turks, Turks in Germany are still Turks and theres no point getting uptight about this its just the way it is you cant change people cos it dont suit you that they are Turks Persian.

For somone of Iran to disregard Turks in very naive, to say we dont exist is ludacris over 1000 years we have been living in the land you call Iran, many World Empires and Turkish capitols in Iran like Isfahan, Tebriz, Hamadan etc there are more Turkish speakers than any other language in the land, why do you like to pretend we dont exist, accept and embrace your Turkish brothers, the Azeri the Kasgay the Hamadan Turks the Turkmen dont hate them and pretend they dont exist.

[Persian]

Dream on.

[Dîrî]

Dream on.

Persian... You and I are the only ones from "Iran" here... Will you testify that the people that this Tork e Khar is calling "Turks in Horesan" are Kurds? He doesn't know... We can't blame him... But YOU know - the Kurds in Khorasan were moved here by the Iranian Shah during the Sasanid empire (correct me - I think I might be wrong about which Dynasty it was) - And these were KURDS from Makû, Khoy and Selmas...

[Persian]

There are Kurds, Torkamans, Arabs, and persians there living together besides each other in peace. I have posted such comment about the diversity of Iranian societies before, and that no ethnicity can make claim to lands as theirs.

and yes, Shah Abbas forcefully relocated Kurds, and Also Arabs in order for the borders to be more dilute and protect them.

[Dîrî]

There are Kurds, Torkamans, Arabs, and persians there living together besides each other in peace. I have posted such comment about the diversity of Iranian societies before, and that no ethnicity can make claim to lands as theirs.

and yes, Shah Abbas forcefully relocated Kurds, and Also Arabs in order for the borders to be more dilute and protect them.

Thanks for clearing THAT up... The people in Khoresan are 80% Kurds from Makû, Khoy and Selmas areas...

[Persian]

If you're talking about the norther part of khorasan. then yes. I was talking about the northern part also by the way.

[Dîrî]

If you're talking about the norther part of khorasan. then yes. I was talking about the northern part also by the way.

Yes... I was talking about the northern part of Khorasan... North West of Mashad... On the border with that shitty country bordering Iran on the East...

[BIGTURK]

There are Kurds on the Turkmenistan border moved by the Shah, the Shah tried to wipe out the Kasgay and tried to opress the AZERI TURKS. 4 revolts by the Azeri Turks 5th time lucky

Again cant an Azeri Turk be an accepted IRANIAN? why can a PERSIAN be an Iranian but not a AZERI TURK, also Persian please nobody in IRAN uses the word Persian its a word used by Iranians who fled Iran and want to be known as Persia, which IRANIAN laugh at as your just reminising on pre-Islamic dreams and dream about the days of Persepolis I dont know why especially after what state old Alexander the Gay left it in Iranians always tell me be vary of Iranians who call themselves Persians as they arnt proud of the Islamic Republic and to make friends use Persian as they think its nice I dont know what are your views?

[Persian]

There are Kurds on the Turkmenistan border moved by the Shah, the Shah tried to wipe out the Kasgay and tried to opress the AZERI TURKS.   4 revolts by the Azeri Turks 5th time lucky

get your facts right, the qashqai are in fars province not in Khorasan. if you dont believe visit their website : www.qashqai.net . which shah are you talking about anyway? if you takl about reza shah, then yes, he crushed every rebellion in every corner of the country, and again i have mentioned this before.

Again cant an Azeri Turk be an accepted IRANIAN? why can a PERSIAN be an Iranian but not a AZERI TURK, also Persian please nobody in IRAN uses the word Persian its a word used by Iranians who fled Iran and want to be known as Persia, which IRANIAN laugh at as your just reminising on pre-Islamic dreams and dream about the days of Persepolis I dont know why especially after what state old Alexander the Gay left it in  Iranians always tell me be vary of Iranians who call themselves Persians as they arnt proud of the Islamic Republic and to make friends use Persian as they think its nice I dont know what are your views?

again with the pointless discussion. havent I already told you that azeris are in fact IRANIAN? read my comments before you come and talk out of the blue.
and as a half-azari, we do not consider ourselves turkish, we consider ourselves purely IRANIAN. end of discussion.

[Al-Muhmin]

This is what I have to say about Turkey, Iran, Kurdestan, etc.....


O People, lend me an attentive ear, for I don't know whether, after this year, I shall ever be amongst you again. Therefore listen to what I am saying to you carefully and take these words to those who could not be present here today.

O People, just as you regard this month, this day, this city as Sacred, so regard the life and property of every Muslim as a sacred trust

O People, it is true that you have certain rights with regard to your women, but they also have right over you. If they abide by your right then to them belongs the right to be fed and clothed in kindness. Do treat your women well and be kind to them for they are your partners and committed helpers. And it is your right that they do not make friends with any one of whom you do not approve, as well as never to commit adultery.

O People, listen to me in earnest, worship Allah, say your five daily prayers (Salah), fast during the month of Ramadhan, and give your wealth in Zakat. Perform Hajj if you can afford to. All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. Know that every Muslim is the brother of another Muslim. Remember, one day you will appear before Allah and answer for your deeds. So beware, do not astray from the path of righteousness after I am gone.
O People, no prophet or apostle will come after me and no new faith will be born.

Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand my words which I convey to you. I leave behind the Qur'an and if you follow it you will never go astray.

All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me directly.

Be my witness oh Allah that I have conveyed your message to your people

~ Muhammed(s.a.w.) 9 Dhul Hijjah 10 A.H

[mv]

Slightly off-topic, but nevertheless: Is this becoming a trend, using these huge fonts? I hope not.
Just speaking for myself, whenever I see a large font I skip the message at once, just like the ones in capitals. Only the very sight of them make me lose interest.
Capitals and large fonts are a form of shouting. People who are shouting are desperate, and desperate people never make sense.

[BIGTURK]

Al-Muhmim I fully suppoort you man, I'm not trying to divide Iran or cause a conflict just highlight to Pers that AZERIS ARE TURKS, THEY SPEAK TURKISH AND ARE TURKS END OF STORY, there heroes are THE OGHUZ TURKS, THE SELCUKS, KORKUT DEDE LIKE OURS. No need to get uptight and annoyed Pers.

I fully understand you AL-Muhmim and this has nothing to do with superiority except for Persian who has a notion that Persians are superior, Azeris who speak Turkish and are Turks cannot be Turks and Iranian, its sad but hopefully he'll come round one day.

I never said Kasgay were from Horosan, read what I wrote I know full well where every TURKISH group lives in Iran, I know the province of Fars and the migrations of the Kasgay Million Strong Tribe which migrates from around Basra inland along Fars. Are you now gonna claim these arnt Turks aswell lol.

Pers cannot we be TURKS and Iranian CITIZENS, why must we be Persian to be Iranian, many Iranians tell me those who use Persian are traitors who run away to the West and create superiority stories to divide Iran, I'm beginning to understand you see by not accepting that there are 30 million Turkish speaking Turks in iRAN you are marjinalising these people. Are you purposly trying to make Iran seem bad I wonder? I know many Iranians they dont have a problem with Azeri Turks and call them Turks proudly I dont know why u have such fixations.


AL-MUHMIM

The Turan is an aim to create a Birlik, Unity among Turks, we are all Turks in the Turan, speak Turkish and are Muslim theres no need to be paranoid and fear this it doesnt concern others other than us, theres no need to get like this were not imposing on any other people just love between our people.

The Turan is the first step to the Ummah, the Turan will be reached that is not a tough task compared to the unity of an Islamic World uniting all the Muslim countries of the world but INSALLAH this will happen one day.


The Turan is a Legendary aim, once the Muslim Turks unite one power hold of the Muslims will be ready and waiting, when the Arabs get together and fully form the Arab world and the rest of the Islamic people the Pakistani/Bengals, Persians, North Africans, Africans, South East Asian and Causcasian are ready it will be time for the GREAT RE-UNIFICATION OF OUR WORLD, this is our views what is your opinion?

[Al-Muhmin]

Unity is always a good thing, my brother.....I am just trying to get us to see the bigger picture here. We're all family. One of the lessons of Islam is that it destroyed the walls created by tribalism because tribalism divided the Ummah and once those walls came down, Islam launched the greatest and most tolerant empire ever. Nationalism and pride are today's tribalism and is a poison to the Muslim nation today. There will be no unity without bringing down those same walls that fell 1400 years ago. Thus, if our Persian brother does not feel himself to be a Turk, let him be whatever he desires himself to be. Its more important that he is Muslim and our family. One of the most strongly voiced complaints of the Kurds is that they were called "Mountain Turks" and I feel that they should have been called what they wished to be called because it was more important that they are our family and they deserve our kinship. Its a matter of dignity. If you give it, people will give it right back inshallah.

For instance, you are from Britain but I am quite sure you'd find it humiliating if the British Government told you that you should not identify yourself as Turkish at all. Obviously, our brother PERSIAN does not wish to be identified as a Turk so lets respect his wishes. BIGTURK, I kn ow you have a great heart and an open ear. I hope you understand what I am saying, my brother. These labels (Turkish, Pakistani, Arab, etc) are just colors and cultures Allah gave to us for this world. Though we should enjoy them, we should not put all our stock in them. The pincipal goal should be Islam and that will be our salvation, inshallah.

One of the Greatest Sufi Poets of all time was Maulana Rumi, a TURK (alhumdullilah), but he put very little stock in his ethnicity and moved the Muslim world with his PERSIAN poetry.

[BIGTURK]

AL-MUHMIM I think you totally misunderstood me, Persian is a PERSIAN, I never ever ever ever said he was a TURK or that PERSIANS ARE TURKS, PERSIANS ARE PERSIANS A DISTINCT RACE WITH THEIR OWN
LANGUAGE.

I was refering to AZERI TURKS my people we are not PERSIAN we are TURKS we are people of IRAN, I was simply saying cant we Turks who number 30 MILLION IN IRAN, BE TURKS AND IRANIAN, why is it fine to be PERSIAN AND IRANIAN BUT NOT TURKISH AND IRANIAN this was my simple question, AZERI TURKS SPEAK TURKISH AND ARE TURKS THEY TRACE THERE ROOTS TO THE LEGENDARY OGHUZ TURKS, DEDE KORKUT, THE GREAT SELCUKS ETC ETC LIKE ALL TURKKS, I was never implying Persian was a Turk or should be one you can never force ANYBODY TO BE SUMTIN THEY ARE NOT.

AL-MUHMIM

The Turan is an aim to create a Birlik, Unity among Turks, we are all Turks in the Turan, speak Turkish and are Muslim theres no need to be paranoid and fear this it doesnt concern others other than us, theres no need to get like this were not imposing on any other people just love between our people.

The Turan is the first step to the Ummah, the Turan will be reached that is not a tough task compared to the unity of an Islamic World uniting all the Muslim countries of the world but INSALLAH this will happen one day.


The Turan is a Legendary aim, once the Muslim Turks unite one power hold of the Muslims will be ready and waiting, when the Arabs get together and fully form the Arab world and the rest of the Islamic people the Pakistani/Bengals, Persians, North Africans, Africans, South East Asian and Causcasian are ready it will be time for the GREAT RE-UNIFICATION OF OUR WORLD, this is our views what is your opinion?

[Dîrî]

Unity is always a good thing, my brother.....I am just trying to get us to see the bigger picture here.  We're all family.   One of the lessons of Islam is that it destroyed the walls created by tribalism because tribalism divided the Ummah and once those walls came down, Islam launched the greatest and most tolerant empire ever.   Nationalism and pride are today's tribalism and is a poison to the Muslim nation today.   There will be no unity without bringing down those same walls that fell 1400 years ago.  Thus, if our Persian brother does not feel himself to be a Turk, let him be whatever he desires himself to be.  Its more important that he is Muslim and our family.  One of the most strongly voiced complaints of the Kurds is that they were called \"Mountain Turks\" and I feel that they should have been called what they wished to be called because it was more important that they are our family and they deserve our kinship.   Its a matter of dignity.   If you give it, people will give it right back inshallah.  

For instance,  you are from Britain but I am quite sure you'd find it humiliating if the British Government told you that you should not identify yourself as Turkish at all.   Obviously, our brother PERSIAN does not wish to be identified as a Turk so lets respect his wishes.     BIGTURK, I kn ow you have a great heart and an open ear.  I hope you understand what I am saying, my brother.  These labels (Turkish, Pakistani, Arab, etc) are just colors and cultures Allah gave to us for this world.  Though we should enjoy them, we should not put all our stock in them.  The pincipal goal should be Islam and that will be our salvation, inshallah.

One of the Greatest Sufi Poets of all time was Maulana Rumi, a TURK (alhumdullilah), but he put very little stock in his ethnicity and moved the Muslim world with his PERSIAN poetry.

Wow - You amaze me even today... How come you never became a Nobel Peace prize winner? You should indeed...

You make ALL matters seem so simple... I adore the way you make a 100 years old Kurdish struggle into a two minute bitching about what we want to be called...

Awfully interesting... And you claim that you want democracy and freedom for all peoples... Hmmm... If YOU want democracy and freedom - I would HATE to meet the person who DOESN'T want these things...

And of all the information HBK, Arcan, Tirigan, KirmanshahiIlami etc and I have given you - you FAIL to even get a HINT or a simple LINE of what we have provided... Such a vaste of time... You know what God said - SOME PEOPLE ARE JUST MEANT TO BE DEAF...

[Dîrî]

AL-MUHMIM I think you totally misunderstood me, Persian is a PERSIAN, I never ever ever ever said he was a TURK or that PERSIANS ARE TURKS, PERSIANS ARE PERSIANS A DISTINCT RACE WITH THEIR OWN  
LANGUAGE.

I was refering to AZERI TURKS my people we are not PERSIAN we are TURKS we are people of IRAN, I was simply saying cant we Turks who number 30 MILLION IN IRAN, BE TURKS AND IRANIAN, why is it fine to be PERSIAN AND IRANIAN BUT NOT TURKISH AND IRANIAN this was my simple question, AZERI TURKS SPEAK TURKISH AND ARE TURKS THEY TRACE THERE ROOTS TO THE LEGENDARY OGHUZ TURKS, DEDE KORKUT, THE GREAT SELCUKS ETC ETC LIKE ALL TURKKS, I was never implying Persian was a Turk or should be one you can never force ANYBODY TO BE SUMTIN THEY ARE NOT.

AL-MUHMIM  

The Turan is an aim to create a Birlik, Unity among Turks, we are all Turks in the Turan, speak Turkish and are Muslim theres no need to be paranoid and fear this it doesnt concern others other than us, theres no need to get like this were not imposing on any other people just love between our people.  

The Turan is the first step to the Ummah, the Turan will be reached that is not a tough task compared to the unity of an Islamic World uniting all the Muslim countries of the world but INSALLAH this will happen one day.  


The Turan is a Legendary aim, once the Muslim Turks unite one power hold of the Muslims will be ready and waiting, when the Arabs get together and fully form the Arab world and the rest of the Islamic people the Pakistani/Bengals, Persians, North Africans, Africans, South East Asian and Causcasian are ready it will be time for the GREAT RE-UNIFICATION OF OUR WORLD, this is our views what is your opinion?

WHY do you keep repeating yourself? It just looks so cheap...

And what about the KURDS? You HATE OUR GUTS - and YOU ARE against liberation of Kurdistan... You talk of "PANTURAN" - WHAT ABOUT PAN-KURDISTAN??? Damn it - you are not a smart person... Hypocrit!

[BIGTURK]

Diri what is your problem, Al-Muhmim is a great noble man who never resorts to racism or hatred or any race what soever its why he is so respected, he respects all races and people and stands against the injustices.

Kurds can be there own worst enemy if your Asiret Clan leaders actually cared about your people you could have been a great people. They care about themselves, do you know how RICH your Clan leaders are and just how poor Kurds are who are you fighting, first you need to defeat this struggle from within before blaming everyone. Kurdish ordinary people have no power or say in any matter, your talking cos your in the West if you were back home and the Asiret or Clan leader gave an instruction you would obey, you are the Aghas men in your society. If the AghaKhan wishes to fight all his men fight, if he changes sides everybody changes sides your society is locked to these men untill you reduce their power all you say are words.

Ataturk tried to end the Clans and Asirets dictating and ruling poor people lifes, he met with the Turkish, Kurdish and Zaza Asirets to choose federalism or Unity they all voted for unity and most the people were more free and faced less oppression from the Asiret leaders many Kurds were also freed especially the Zaza people so many Kurds joined the society became Citizens and many ethnic Kurds are Patriotic Citizens due to this however many Kurds Asiret leaders were funded by the Brits and so didnt loose their power and still rule so many Kurds and its far worse in Iran, Syria and Iraq. Go explain the real problems of the Kurds lets be Honest.

Diri land is never GIVEN to people, Turkey was not handed to us the borders are dug with our BLOOD we fought for this land. If you fight for your land in Iraq as now is your opportune moment and a Syria which is hated Internationally and found your nation here good luck to you if you achieve it you deserve it but dont talk about Rights, because of all the people you have the LEAST right to this land, you may live here but when did you rule it, where are your empires and states here, your presence where is it you dont explain the Kurds properly this is why you get these responses. Kurds are a Nomadic Clanistic people who always liked the Mountains and High Plateus they are very Patriotic to their Clan but not Nationalistic which is similar to some TuRKS aswell.

Turkey has commited many many wrongs, we are definately in no way perfect but is the problem just us ha think about it, do Britts or French play no part in this, do the Invasion and Created Colonies of Syria and Iraq have nutin to do with this, do now the Greater Armenian kill the Muslim Genocide policies have nutin to do with this. Before WW1 were there these ethnic problems think about it, European Nationalism has bought these problems, yes we must be proud of who we are you are Great Kurds not Mountain TUrks we are Great Turks let us respect this and each other what do you think?

[Dîrî]

Diri what is your problem, Al-Muhmim is a great noble man who never resorts to racism or hatred or any race what soever its why he is so respected, he respects all races and people and stands against the injustices.

Kurds can be there own worst enemy if your Asiret Clan leaders actually cared about your people you could have been a great people.   They care about themselves, do you know how RICH your Clan leaders are and just how poor Kurds are who are you fighting, first you need to defeat this struggle from within before blaming everyone.   Kurdish ordinary people have no power or say in any matter, your talking cos your in the West if you were back home and the Asiret or Clan leader gave an instruction you would obey, you are the Aghas men in your society.   If the AghaKhan wishes to fight all his men fight, if he changes sides everybody changes sides your society is locked to these men untill you reduce their power all you say are words.

Ataturk tried to end the Clans and Asirets dictating and ruling poor people lifes, he met with the Turkish, Kurdish and Zaza Asirets to choose federalism or Unity they all voted for unity and most the people were more free and faced less oppression from the Asiret leaders many Kurds were also freed especially the Zaza people so many Kurds joined the society became Citizens and many ethnic Kurds are Patriotic Citizens due to this however many Kurds Asiret leaders were funded by the Brits and so didnt loose their power and still rule so many Kurds and its far worse in Iran, Syria and Iraq.   Go explain the real problems of the Kurds lets be Honest.

Diri land is never GIVEN to people, Turkey was not handed to us the borders are dug with our BLOOD we fought for this land.   If you fight for your land in Iraq as now is your opportune moment and a Syria which is hated Internationally and found your nation here good luck to you if you achieve it you deserve it but dont talk about Rights, because of all the people you have the LEAST right to this land, you may live here but when did you rule it, where are your empires and states here, your presence where is it you dont explain the Kurds properly this is why you get these responses.   Kurds are a Nomadic Clanistic people who always liked the Mountains and High Plateus they are very Patriotic to their Clan but not Nationalistic which is similar to some TuRKS aswell.

Turkey has commited many many wrongs, we are definately in no way perfect but is the problem just us ha think about it, do Britts or French play no part in this, do the Invasion and Created Colonies of Syria and Iraq have nutin to do with this, do now the Greater Armenian kill the Muslim Genocide policies have nutin to do with this.   Before WW1 were there these ethnic problems think about it, European Nationalism has bought these problems, yes we must be proud of who we are you are Great Kurds not Mountain TUrks we are Great Turks let us respect this and each other what do you think?

You have a twisted grip on reality... Sorry but we can never be friends untill you read THIS text and ACCEPT IT: http://www.xs4all.nl/~tank/kurdish/htdocs/...s/his/orig.html OR AT THE VERY LEAST RESPECT IT - AND STOP TELLING US WE ARE FROM MONGOLIA - LIKE YOU...

ANd SECOND: You might wanna RE-THINK your claims that "Land isn't given"... DAMN ataturk PROMISED us a COUNTRY that was gonna be BASED on "Kurdish - Turkish brotherhood" - where the hell did THAT speech go? ANd all that filthy work Kurds did in the name of Islam because we and TUrks were brothers...

You see - the same thing YOU want Persian to accept to understand Azeri - YOU shall accept to understand KURDS... Please stop harrasing me over little wrongs that SOME AGHAS did - Kurds are far from victims of the Ashiret system - we are very greatfull for it - because that was the only thing the Turks DIDN'T successfully abolish - and THAT is what saved KURDISH CULTURE and PRIDE!

I do not care if you are a Turk, Persian, Arab, Pakistani, Bengali or whatever you wanna be - but don't disrespect Kurds when they TELL you THIS IS OUR HISTORY - THEN YOU CAN EXPECT TO BE VIEWED WITH HATE AND DISTRUST RIGHT BACK!

We aren't STUPID... We KNOW what TURKS did to Kurds - and what they do to this VERY day - They have FAR from appologized - all Erdogan did was say "there is a Kurdish problem - and it will be solved under ONE FLAG, ONE LANGUAGE and ONE NATION"... WHAT THE F*CK IS THAT!??? WE ARE KURDS - NOT TURKS... RESPECT THAT! AND WHEN YOU START RESPECTING THAT YOU WILL UNDERSTAND THAT EVERY NATION HAS A GOD GIVEN RIGHT TO A STATE OF THEIR OWN!

ANd if you don't - I will pitty you... For you are truly bewildered then...

[Al-Muhmin]

Diri simply repeated the same argument I put up (which he insulted me for) and frameed it in a very insulting way is if people respond positively to disrespect.

Go have a beer, Diri. cool off.

[Dîrî]

Diri simply repeated the same argument I put up (which he insulted me for) and frameed it in a very insulting way is if people respond positively to disrespect.

Go have a beer, Diri.  cool off.

Go on... Show me your REAL face Zee... Keep talking...

[BIGTURK]

Stop attacking Zee Diri your just maken a Drunken embarrasment of yourself.

Ataturk NEVER promised you a country, the Brits and French may have but not us, and Ataturk met with KURDISH, TURKISH, AZERI TURKISH, ZAZA ASIRETS AND ASKED THEM UNITY OR FEDERALISM IN THE FEVOUR OF THE GREAT VICTORY THEY LED AS BROTHERS TOGETHER THEY VOTED UNITY, DONT BLAME ATATURK FOR THE CORRUPT GOVERNMENTS AFTER HIS TIME FOR THE CRIMES AGAINST KURDS. ATATURK GAVE KURDISH WOMAN A PLACE IN SOCIETY AND EQUALITY, HE GOT RID OF MANY KURDISH AND TURKISH ASIRETS AND REDUCED THEIR POWER TO HELP THE PEOPLE! People were freed, its all good you talking from the West about how great ASIRETS are but do you really give a damn about the Kurds who live under the Asirets with no power or voice they are puppets and their leaders are puppets this creates a puppet syndrone in your society and you keep getting used.

I never said you were from Mongolia and neither are TUrks we are from Uygur China and the Ural-Altaic Mountains near Mongolia but are different to Mongols. But we mixed with the MOngols and PROUDLY CARRY THEIR BLOOD ASWELL, some of the KURDS originate from TURANIC areas and have Ozbek blood Turkish blood from ancient times, many ethnic Turks became Kurds many ethnic Kurds became Turks theres no need to deny this with AlpArslan we entered ANATOLIA together, you werent there or we werent there before each other we entered as Muslims together. We are close people the only people our division suits are the West and you dont wanna admit this, KURDS ARE KURDS AND GREAT PEOPLE, TURKS ARE TURKS AND GREAT PEOPLE, we always lived together the Ottomans and Selcuk and others treated each other well, the AKKOYUNLU AND KARAKOYUNLU STATES WERE STATES CREATED BY KURDISH AND TURKISH CLANS, TURKMEN/AZERI/YORUK TURKS AND KURDS WE CREATED A GREAT EMPIRE WHICH WENT INTO IRAN IRAQ AND TURKEY IN WHICH WE HAD NO CAPITAL AS OUR NOMADIC TRADITIONS DICTATE WE FOUNDED IT TOGETHER WE ALWAYS FOUGHT TOGETHER WE ARE BROTHERS, I AM AND MOST TURKS ARE AS DISGUSTED AS YOU WITH PREVIOUS TURKISH GOVERNMENTS AND THEY OPRESSED US!!! ASWELL YOU FAIL TO REALISE THIS, NOW THIS ISLAMIC PARTY FOR THE FIRST TIME HAS BEEN DOING A GOOD JOB SINCE ATATURK AND OZAL AND ECEVIT, WE ARE YOUNG TURKS I WAS NOT ALIVE IN THESE TIMES I SEE KURDS AS MY BROTHERS AND HAVE MANY KURDISH FRIENDS AND EVEN FAMILY THEY LOVE ME I LOVE THEM HOW CAN WE BE SEPARATED HA.

dIRI
WE ARE KURDS - NOT TURKS... RESPECT THAT!

I respect this, however, what you said about every people have a right to a state your wildly mistaken, where is the Gypsy state, Aboriginee State, Native American State, Aztec State, Inca State etc etc dont blame Turks for not having a state you should have destroyed the Brittish and never allowed them to create Iraq and Syria this is where your states should have been Iraq and your native Iran if you get your state good for you however, Turkey is not originally yours or ours it is both of ours and we will both live here as we always have done, Kurds will have full rights and are full citizens and have every right they want IN THEIR COUNTRY.

Diri you say you dont hate any race then SELAM BROTHER, we can be friends can we not.

[merced12]

iam azeri and iam turk because we are speak turks language not persian language

[Guest_Persian Gulf_*]

BIGTURK
Member


Joined: 17 Apr 2005
Posts: 2303

Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2005 6:37 pm Post subject:

I never said you were from Mongolia and neither are TUrks we are from Uygur China and the Ural-Altaic Mountains near Mongolia but are different to Mongols. But we mixed with the MOngols and PROUDLY CARRY THEIR BLOOD ASWELL, some of the KURDS originate from TURANIC areas and have Ozbek blood Turkish blood from ancient times, many ethnic Turks became Kurds many ethnic Kurds became Turks theres no need to deny this with AlpArslan we entered ANATOLIA together, you werent there or we werent there before each other we entered as Muslims together



for your kind information Mr. BIGTURK, turks living in todays Turkey have no racial relation with turks from Uygur China(and in a broader sense they are same as mongols),Only their language has been passed on. The invading Turks from that area mixed with many races until reaching Byzantine Empire(Modern Turkey).
in todays world claiming 100% racial purity is almost impossible but i am sure that Kurds are of Aryan race and have no racial relation with Uygur Turks.