West Armenia Or North Kurdistan?, Discussing the matter of land ownership... Options

[Ishkhan]

right...and then our population would be 13 000 000 moslem kurds and a whole 3 000 000 armenians. then the PKK will become agressive and pull a bunch of crap against the armenians. our wonderful 60 000 strong army will have to interfere, there will be a wonderful spill of bloodshed...

lets be realistic here

Who says the PKK would interfere? If there is respect between Armenians and Kurds, and if Kurds are living happily compared to the oppressed ones in neighboring areas, no Kurds would adhere to the idea of carving a Kurdish state out of Wilson's Armenia.

The key is to make Armenia a model nation.

[Hosank]

so biji is like Hail in english?

sohrab? your name is sohrab? that's an armenian nameeee

right...and then our population would be 13 000 000 moslem kurds and a whole 3 000 000 armenians. then the PKK will become agressive and pull a bunch of crap against the armenians. our wonderful 60 000 strong army will have to interfere, there will be a wonderful spill of bloodshed...

lets be realistic here

i don't agree with this statement.
as armenians, once wilsonian armenia is achieved, we obviously cannot force the kurds to leave, for that would be remenissent of what the turks did to us....92 YEARS TO THIS DAY.

but, just like when the soviet union broke up, all germans moved into germany, and many greeks moved back to their homeland voluntarily, though they were not discriminated against.

my point is that im sure that if parallel to a greater armenia, a nation of kurdistan is created, im sure many kurds living in the new armenia would want to move to be in the new kurdistan..
obviously those who stay could be a welcome minority

[irlandahay]

so biji is like Hail in english?

sohrab? your name is sohrab? that's an armenian nameeee
i don't agree with this statement.
as armenians, once wilsonian armenia is achieved, we obviously cannot force the kurds to leave, for that would be remenissent of what the turks did to us....92 YEARS TO THIS DAY.

but, just like when the soviet union broke up, all germans moved into germany, and many greeks moved back to their homeland voluntarily, though they were not discriminated against.

my point is that im sure that if parallel to a greater armenia, a nation of kurdistan is created, im sure many kurds living in the new armenia would want to move to be in the new kurdistan..
obviously those who stay could be a welcome minority

again...your speaking as if in some pixie fairytale world.
kurds wont pack up and move a lang on wich they,v been living in for 90 years.
germans left, so did greeks, only because there was a germany and a greece. not sure people are too eager to go back to sectarian violent iraq...

it will be like the moslems in lebanon. they start off peacefull, and then, once they dont get what they want, they start their screaming. please, stop, you know how (not jsut kurds) but all human beings are! they always want what they dont have! eventually they will want more. history has shown us this many many times.

the best thing to do would be to settle for important monuments like ararat and the surrounding area. Let's not go all the way to cilicia.

[Hosank]

im not sure you read my post properly, so let me repost it, highlighting the important passages...

my point is that im sure that if parallel to a greater armenia, a nation of kurdistan is created, im sure many kurds living in the new armenia would want to move to be in the new kurdistan..

they always want what they dont have! eventually they will want more.

so do you propose we sit on our arses and do nothing to fix the injustice committed against us? i hope not, kurds will get a sufficiently large territory, as seen in the map, which will obviously be a logical and generous thing, if they wish to seek more, they will have lost moral backing.

and we will not let it happen...remember...1915 never again?

[davit]

and we will not let it happen...remember...1915 never again?

yea i heard that many times today in calgary theres a huge population of armenians and toda which is april 24 we had a meeting on the streets in downtown with flowers and cars and people in black shirts koroche 2nd yerevan 2nd yexeri .it was wery cool i dont know how to post pictures if you tell me i will show you them .

ooooooooo yeaaaaaaa i forgot i recovered my password after big swearings and insultings to the meic admin theyve sent me a mail to recover my password.

so you dont need tosee davit2 talking beacuse davit is back.

[Dîrî]

@Hosank

Bijî means "Long Live"... What do you need German for? Don't you understand English?

Yes, my name is Sohrab... It's an Armenian name? Please tell me what it means...


@All

What some of you are asking for is quite impossible...

You think that you will be able to have a HUGE Muslim Kurdish population in Armenia without any protest...?

As Irlandahay said, I support your claims to SOME land in todays Turkey - for example important areas like Ani, Qars and Ararat... Even THAT may be hard to do - since those areas are inhabited by Kurds mostly - and some Turks in Qars... Yet I support that, because I know we need to show good nature and act towards others, as we want others to act towards us...

I do not however, support Wilsonian Armenia - because it would mean a country with a population of: 10 million Kurds, 3 million Armenians & 3 million Turks...

And I do not believe that this ever will happen, because it's a nightmare, even for you Armenians to have 13 million Muslims in your country - and if it is a DEMOCRACY, then the MAJORITY will decide... Which means that KURDS will rule Armenia...

And as you may know - there are VERY few people in the world, who breed as much as Kurds do... Each Kurdish family has at least 4-6 children... This means that in the future of Wilsonian Armenia, Kurds will become within 50 years, 20 millions - while Armenians whom have relatively small families - 3-4 children, will be maybe 6 millions if they are lucky within 50 years...

So please use your COMMON SENSE and THINK... What you are asking for is irrational...

Wilsonian Armenia - is like a "Kurdistan 2"...

I suggest you be realistic about it, and demand Ani, Ararat and Qars...

Here is another map of The Treaty of Sèvres:

[HayArsen]

I dont think Sohrab is an Armenian name...maybe you mean Serhob?

[Ishkhan]

He means Zohrab.

Where did you get the numbers (10 million Kurds and 3 million Turks)? All of you are forgetting the Armenians of Hamshen, as well as the crypto-Armenians (i.e. Armenians who were forcefully converted to Islam). They do exist. I've met one through the internet.

Besides, in the past, there was a time during which thousands of Armenians from the Diaspora repatriated. I'd expect this to happen if Armenia gets land from Turkey.

[Dîrî]

He means Zohrab.

Where did you get the numbers (10 million Kurds and 3 million Turks)? All of you are forgetting the Armenians of Hamshen, as well as the crypto-Armenians (i.e. Armenians who were forcefully converted to Islam). They do exist. I've met one through the internet.

Besides, in the past, there was a time during which thousands of Armenians from the Diaspora repatriated. I'd expect this to happen if Armenia gets land from Turkey.

Sohrab and Zohrab are the same...

As is Sehrob...

Now can somebody please tell me what it means in Armenian?

And "Good luck" with your plans...

[irlandahay]

im not sure you read my post properly, so let me repost it, highlighting the important passages...
so do you propose we sit on our arses and do nothing to fix the injustice committed against us? i hope not, kurds will get a sufficiently large territory, as seen in the map, which will obviously be a logical and generous thing, if they wish to seek more, they will have lost moral backing.

and we will not let it happen...remember...1915 never again?

what I'm trying to say is, armenia has enough economic troubles and problems without having to deal with more land. and if we do get some land back...who's gonna go live there?

I'm saying fight for recognition, fight for compensation, but lets deal with what we got now and worry about the rest later...

[irlandahay]

He means Zohrab.

Where did you get the numbers (10 million Kurds and 3 million Turks)? All of you are forgetting the Armenians of Hamshen, as well as the crypto-Armenians (i.e. Armenians who were forcefully converted to Islam). They do exist. I've met one through the internet.

Besides, in the past, there was a time during which thousands of Armenians from the Diaspora repatriated. I'd expect this to happen if Armenia gets land from Turkey.

the Hamshen arnt enough to constitute a majority, were looking at something like 2 million people at most.

and I,m sure it will happen, but not in great enough numbers to really re-populate the area.
we need to give it time. lets be economically stable first.

obviously there is no question that we should have ararat and the surroundings, Ani... but all the way to cilicia will prove to be quite the challenge

[Hosank]

yes, irlandahay, and so think most armenians as well..

wilsonian armenia is a dream, that, once we perfect our existing armenia, we will begin to look for..

sohrab..this is the meaning of your name: From name Suhrab which came from "Shahname" by Firdusi. It was also used as Zurab, Surab for short(surkh "red" and ab "water", "bright"). The corresponding surname is Zohrabyan.

now, wilsonian armenia is not something that is impossible,.

first, the 3 million turks would not stay under domination of armenians, for sure, not because we would do anything, but they would be to scared to find out.

there arn't 10 million kurds in wilsonian armenia, there are 10 million kurds in all of turkey.
and im sure that most kurds would rather leave, to go live in an independent kurdistan rather then stay in a christian armenia, though they will be welcome to stay, and im sure some would, but many will go south for sure.

let us not forget that in turkey, there are probably 2 million people with over 50% armenian ethnicity, if not more. these people could be converted..

there are also a few hundred thousand armenians who have kept their identity secret, as well as 70 thousand armenians in istambul.

diri.., do not think that the land will simply be populated by the 3 million armenians already there. do not forget that we are 10 million in the world. and do not forget that most people simply await for their land to be free to go back to it.

but in the same way, what would all the countries which you seek to corrupt in order to form a kurdistan think?
what would the arab majorities think? they will just let you do it?

[Jam]

Actually there are still many Armenians living in Turkey. The majority converted to Islam and the minority is still Apostolic Christian. Many Armenians hide their identity and I think it doesn't matter if Armenians are Muslim or Christian because that is only the matter of religion. Armenians are Armenians doesn't matter which faith they belong to.

I think that Erzourum, Van and the land around Ararat are the most original Armenian cities.

[Hosank]

yes, but, the apostolic faith is the main pillar in the armenian society..

[Dîrî]

sohrab..this is the meaning of your name: From name Suhrab which came from "Shahname" by Firdusi. It was also used as Zurab, Surab for short(surkh "red" and ab "water", "bright"). The corresponding surname is Zohrabyan.

So it's not Armenian?

You told me it's Armenian... What is "Red" and "Water" in Armenian?

You thought I didn't know the KURDISH ("Red Water") meaning of my name? Funny...


And as for the rest of your post... You are not being consistent... You say "Wilsonian Armenia" - but you are talking about "going all the way to cilicia" - which is FAR from Wilsonian Armenia...

but in the same way, what would all the countries which you seek to corrupt in order to form a kurdistan think?
what would the arab majorities think? they will just let you do it?

And you think the Kurds would just MOVE or leave their lands? They've been living there for centuries and milleniums... Are they suddenly going to go away since Wilsonian Armenia would mean "Christian" country?

I doubt there will be anything "Christian" about that country - unless it's a dictatorship... Because only a dictatorship can force millions of Kurds to "quiet"...

And for your information, there are 25-30 million Kurds in Turkey, not 10...

You exagerate the number of Armenians, yet you belittle the number of Kurds... Why is that? I don't see how you can be right about there being 10 million Armenians (I don't know where you got that many Armenians from)...

I will accept the number, since you as an Armenian should know... But then you should also accept this number: 30 million Kurds in Turkey - 20 million of whom live in North Kurdistan... And 10 million of whom live in Turkish Turkey - the cities...

In Wan alone today, there are 1 million Kurds... What are you gonna do with them?

[Jam]

And for your information, there are 25-30 million Kurds in Turkey, not 10...

25 -30 million Kurds First of all, you count the Zazas as Kurds too, but Zazas are not Kurds and do not want to be called Kurdish! So you should take away between 3 and 5 millions from 25 millions.

Second there are people who speak Kurmanji (Kurdish) but even they don't see themselves as Kurdish. Many Kurds rather vote for Islamic Turkish parties than for the Kurdish parties in Turkey that's why HADEP and DEHAP never get votes over 10% and cannot be in the parlament.

By the way I always heard from Kurds that there are 30 million Kurds worldwide and not only in Turkey. Of course you can change the numbers to impress the Armenians how many Kurds live in Turkey and how patriotic the Turkey-Kurds are. You are making just propoganda since you are a nationalist.

Nobody actually knows how many Kurds, Zazas and Armenians live in Turkey since the Turks ignore other ethnic groups.

[Urartu]

In Wan alone today, there are 1 million Kurds... What are you gonna do with them?

That’s funny; Van’s population is only 284,464. Yet there are over 1,000,000 Kurds Maybe you’re including the animals in the Van province as kurds as well?

[Ishkhan]

Here's my interpretation of that name:

Zohrab - "Zoh" and "rab"
Zoh - victim, martyr (in Armenian)
rab - lord, God (in semitic languages)

So it means martyr of God!

[Hosank]

lol..urartu..i was thinking the same thing (about the numbers i mean)

and i think Zohrab originally comes from ancient persian, and since armenia is right next to persia wel..

i don't think there are 30 million kurds in turkey, but maybe 20 million, i would believe.

but you do not seem to understand what wilsonian armenia is.




so yes, there are probably over 20 million kurds IN TURKEY..but we armenians no longer lay claim to all of turkey, there are probably only a few scattered million kurds in wilsonian armenia.

and come on. the armenian land on which modern kurds live(north of van) is not their ancestral homeland, but rather the place they were forcefully relocated to to replace the genocided armenians by the turks. you have no history there, and have only lived theer for 92 years, if you have moved once, you can move back.

i do not inflate the number of armenians, they are around 9 or 10 million world wide (not counting hamshens or those who hide, or don't know of their identity), i think that is enough people to fill the land of wilsonian armenia

[davit]

Sohrab and Zohrab are the same...

Now can somebody please tell me what it means in Armenian?

theres no name sohrab but sehrop is an name i mean was a name of a warrior in 1992-1993 who died in hus proably 30th battle everyone still remembers him.

i dont think we can tell waht it means because its a real old name (theres serop guy in 1800 something book) so its probably in old armenian language but ser means love .

[Dîrî]

25 -30 million Kurds First of all, you count the Zazas as Kurds too, but Zazas are not Kurds and do not want to be called Kurdish! So you should take away between 3 and 5 millions from 25 millions.

Second there are people who speak Kurmanji (Kurdish) but even they don't see themselves as Kurdish. Many Kurds rather vote for Islamic Turkish parties than for the Kurdish parties in Turkey that's why HADEP and DEHAP never get votes over 10% and cannot be in the parlament.

By the way I always heard from Kurds that there are 30 million Kurds worldwide and not only in Turkey. Of course you can change the numbers to impress the Armenians how many Kurds live in Turkey and how patriotic the Turkey-Kurds are. You are making just propoganda since you are a nationalist.

Nobody actually knows how many Kurds, Zazas and Armenians live in Turkey since the Turks ignore other ethnic groups.

Not all Kirmanckî are like you... In Fact the MAJORITY of Kirmanckî consider themselves Kurds...

What is Aynûr? Mikael? Are they Arabs? What about Beser Şahîn? Is she Turkish maybe? And these are only SOME of the Kirmanckî singers who consider themselves Kurds...

And I am not inflating any numbers... There are 25-30 million Kurds in Turkey... Of these, 15 million are based in North Kurdistan, and 10 million around in different cities in the Turkish areas...

Even if we removed the number of non-Kurdish Kirmanckî - it would still be over 25... That is why I say "25-30" and not just 25...

And you know nothing about internal Kurdish policies... You don't analyse... You just jump to conclusions...

So you know not of what you speak...

I am for the people's choice... Which means, IF Dersîm or Çewlik or Erzîncan or Elezîz wish to be independent from Kurdistan - in a "Zazaistan", then they are free to do so...

But you think Kurds are barbars who force you to be Kurdish... That is where you are wrong...

[Dîrî]

That’s funny; Van’s population is only 284,464. Yet there are over 1,000,000 Kurds Maybe you’re including the animals in the Van province as kurds as well?

I don't think you know what your talking about... You just went on some stupid website and check some numbers...

And according to offcial numbers, the population of Ankara is 4 million... And officially the population of Istanbul is 9 million...

We all KNOW that those are not correct numbers... And if YOU had known why, you'd understand perhaps... So let me explain:

In Turkey, each province is given money annually (as part of their annual budget) according to the number of people who are registered in the province...

There are two reasons why the numbers are made less than what's true:

1) Turkey can't afford to hand out that much money each year to every regional administration...
2) Those who are registered in a different province, are not counted as part of the provincial population...
3) In the case of the Kurdish areas, Turkey doesn't want to spend money on them at all... So they always underestimate for two reasons:
A) To not give them more money
B) To belittle the number of Kurds in Turkey


There has been an influx of people moving to Wan since the 1990's...

[Dîrî]

Here's my interpretation of that name:

Zohrab - "Zoh" and "rab"
Zoh - victim, martyr (in Armenian)
rab - lord, God (in semitic languages)

So it means martyr of God!

Thank you for that interpretation...

Very interesting...

Because of Sohrabê Rostemê Zal's story... I don't know if you're familiar with the myth...

Sipas...

[Dîrî]

lol..urartu..i was thinking the same thing (about the numbers i mean)

and i think Zohrab originally comes from ancient persian, and since armenia is right next to persia wel..

i don't think there are 30 million kurds in turkey, but maybe 20 million, i would believe.

but you do not seem to understand what wilsonian armenia is.


so yes, there are probably over 20 million kurds IN TURKEY..but we armenians no longer lay claim to all of turkey, there are probably only a few scattered million kurds in wilsonian armenia.

and come on. the armenian land on which modern kurds live(north of van) is not their ancestral homeland, but rather the place they were forcefully relocated to to replace the genocided armenians by the turks. you have no history there, and have only lived theer for 92 years, if you have moved once, you can move back.

i do not inflate the number of armenians, they are around 9 or 10 million world wide (not counting hamshens or those who hide, or don't know of their identity), i think that is enough people to fill the land of wilsonian armenia

I don't seem to understand what Wilsonian Armenia is? Are you not reading my posts? Did you not see the map I made? Is it not correct?

Let me post it for you ONE more time:

[HayArsen]

Wilsonian Armenia is what we had after treaty of serves. What dont you understand?

[Dîrî]

Wilsonian Armenia is what we had after treaty of serves. What dont you understand?

Are you illiterate? Read what I write, not what you THINK I write...

I was asking a rhetorical question:

"I don't seem to understand what Wilsonian Armenia is?"

It was in response to HIS comment:

"but you do not seem to understand what wilsonian armenia is."


No wait, let me put in chronological order for you, I still don't trust you to have figured out what was said between us:

Hosank said:

"but you do not seem to understand what wilsonian armenia is."

Dîrî replied:

"I don't seem to understand what Wilsonian Armenia is? Are you not reading my posts? Did you not see the map I made? Is it not correct?

Let me post it for you ONE more time:"

Now do you see that I DO understand what Wilsonian Armenia is, Hosank???

And HayArsen - do YOU now understand that YOU should invest some money in a pair of glasses?

[Ishkhan]

As I said, a lot of the people in Western Armenia are Armenians who were converted to Islam during the genocide. A lot of them are conscious of that fact. There are crypto-Greeks as well. However, these informations are hidden both by Kurds who want to carve a nation, and by the Turkish government.

Besides, why should we think about the current inhabitants of Western Armenia? When the Zionists colonized the Holy Land, they didn't think about the native Palestinian Muslims and Christians. When they invaded Lebanon, they didn't think about the Lebanese natives either. Jews returned after more than 2000 years. We want to return after 92 years or so. When we have enough influence over the Western World as the Jews do, we will impose our will whether you Turks or Kurds like it or not.

[Dîrî]

As I said, a lot of the people in Western Armenia are Armenians who were converted to Islam during the genocide. A lot of them are conscious of that fact. There are crypto-Greeks as well. However, these informations are hidden both by Kurds who want to carve a nation, and by the Turkish government.

Besides, why should we think about the current inhabitants of Western Armenia? When the Zionists colonized the Holy Land, they didn't think about the native Palestinian Muslims and Christians. When they invaded Lebanon, they didn't think about the Lebanese natives either. Jews returned after more than 2000 years. We want to return after 92 years or so. When we have enough influence over the Western World as the Jews do, we will impose our will whether you Turks or Kurds like it or not.

I'm sorry, but that sounds more like a scheme, than a demand for justice... It seems you are actually taking this into the realm of conspiracy...

[HayArsen]

A rhetorical questions is used for its rhetoric effect, not to get an answer. If you are asking a rhetorical question you must not expect an answer

And yeah I do need glasses lol

[Ishkhan]

I'm sorry, but that sounds more like a scheme, than a demand for justice... It seems you are actually taking this into the realm of conspiracy...

What are you talking about? We've been demanding justice for the past 92 years.

[Rumtaya]

As I said, a lot of the people in Western Armenia are Armenians who were converted to Islam during the genocide. A lot of them are conscious of that fact. There are crypto-Greeks as well. However, these informations are hidden both by Kurds who want to carve a nation, and by the Turkish government.

Besides, why should we think about the current inhabitants of Western Armenia? When the Zionists colonized the Holy Land, they didn't think about the native Palestinian Muslims and Christians. When they invaded Lebanon, they didn't think about the Lebanese natives either. Jews returned after more than 2000 years. We want to return after 92 years or so. When we have enough influence over the Western World as the Jews do, we will impose our will whether you Turks or Kurds like it or not.

IT IS YOUR RIGHT BROTHER

to claim back your homeland, since you where killed in thousands and have been forced out of it...
No people have the right, to overtake any lands, which where before cleaned from its original inhabits...

I am waiting, to see soon the Armenian colors of red, blue and orange, waving on the mountain of Ararat....

[Hosank]

I am waiting, to see soon the Armenian colors of red, blue and orange, waving on the mountain of Ararat....

beautiful words brother, i await that too..

diri, im glad you can visualise borders on a map, but i still am not convinced that you understand the concept.

your map is quite falsified. you make it look like the places spread with green are exclusively by kurds. where are all the arabs? Assyrians? or turks for that matter? i cannot believe that the whole of eastern turkey is inhabitated soly by kurds.

and once again, you have avoided my comment. the kurds living in the borders of wilsonian armenia are not native to the region, they have rather been moved there by the turks in order to fill the void created by the genocide of it's armenian population.

i think that after 92 years, you can move down south. i am sure that most kurds would do it. as i explained before, pontic greeks that have been living outside of mainland greece for 3000 years have begun to move back there, why not the kurds???

[davit]

hello

[Dîrî]

Extremism will never overcome reality...

Demand ALL of Turkey as your Armenia... It won't happen...


You're dreaming of throwing out Kurds from a land they've in habited for thousands of years...

You think that those areas were solely inhabited by Armenians before the Genocide?

Keep dreaming...

Nobody is leaving their lands for any of the reasons you mentioned...

It's illogical, yet I still want Ani, Ararat and Qars to be part of greater Armenia...

[Hosank]

Demand ALL of Turkey as your Armenia... It won't happen...

that is why we only demand treaty of sevre armenia, which is not illogical, or impossible.

You're dreaming of throwing out Kurds from a land they've in habited for thousands of years...

no, we dream of getting our land promised to us in 1919, there were no kurds in those borders till turks moved them there.

You think that those areas were solely inhabited by Armenians before the Genocide?

the lands i claim? yes. there were kurds, but the kurds were in the south, and west, where there were no armenians.

Nobody is leaving their lands for any of the reasons you mentioned...

i find these comments quite ironic coming from a guy who's dream is to create a country that has been virtually non-existent, to go from the mediteranian sea to the persian gulf. your claims are faaar more farfetched then ours

[Urartu]

Diri don’t even start claims about Kurdistan. Do you know what will happen to the Kurdish controlled area of Northern Iraq after the US withdraws? Their will be massacres of the Kurdish people. Kurds always side with the superpowers in attempts to get a Kurdistan. During Ottoman times you helped the Turks under the promise that you would get a Kurdish state. And now with the US…

10 years before the Iraq war. Southern Iraq was sanctioned and their was almost no trade to it. While the northern part of Iraq was open for trade and allowed to prosper. Kurds have always been betraying their neighbors in order to get a “Kurdistan”.

Northern Iraq will be just like Western Iran in 1945 all over again……

What about the fact that Van was a city founded by Armenians. Does this mean nothing to you? Or is all you think about self-determination and the right for a majority to rule themselves. Maybe where I live (Glendale) Armenians should rule. Since we are the majority. Kurds must have serious issues laying claim to half the Middle East when they have never even had a state.

I think it is you who is dreaming. Look at Armenia. We have already begun getting our historic land back in Azerbaijan. What have the Kurds done? Set up a self governed Northern Iraq when their was no government in Iraq? WOW, real hard. What do you think will happen when the government of Iraq is rebuilt? Backed by Iran, Syria, and Turkey who also don’t want the Kurds in their own countries to form a united Kurdistan?

I’ll let you use your imagination………. Kurds

[Hosank]

here is something that should help fuel the debate..

it's about hidden armenians in turkey.
why knows. maybe the supposed 10 million kurds living in western armenia, are not all kurds after all

http://www.france24.com/france24Public/en/...-FRANCE-24.html

[Ishkhan]

That video is pretty interesting..

Extremism will never overcome reality...

Demand ALL of Turkey as your Armenia... It won't happen...


You're dreaming of throwing out Kurds from a land they've in habited for thousands of years...

You think that those areas were solely inhabited by Armenians before the Genocide?

Keep dreaming...

Nobody is leaving their lands for any of the reasons you mentioned...

It's illogical, yet I still want Ani, Ararat and Qars to be part of greater Armenia...

It's not extremism. It's fighting for justice.

[Hosank]

fighting for the RESTORATION of justice

[Dîrî]

What can I say...

You seem to always be on the extreme right wing of the matter...

The only person who has shown moderation and a will to compromise, is Irlandahay - whom I salut for his progressive thinking.

When I talk about "extremism" in this context, I speak of Kurds who want to have most of eastern Turkey under a greater Kurdistan, and of Armenians who want most of eastern Turkey under a greater Armenia...

In e.g. the TWO extreme points of view...

I am not in either of the two boots... Nor is Irlandahay at any of the two extremes...

But Kurds and Armenians who cannot sit down and come to a compromise, are not of any service to their nation - because no matter what they do, in the end, they have to be neighbours, either they like it or not...

[Hosank]

extreme right wing

thank you, i am a rightwinger.

The only person who has shown moderation and a will to compromise, is Irlandahay

lol, you would be surprised. irlandahye believes in quite the same ideology as i, if not more.

I am not in either of the two boots

i do not agree. you are quite pro larger kurdistan, i mean, you rmap shows your ententions, of placing Van, the original city founded by armenians, as a kurdish province. that does not work for me.

and you keep trying to make it seem ever more complicated to gain a greater armenia, at your own uplifting, as a kurd nation.

i am the one being moderate, for not asking for a country that extends all the way to the Mediterranean, which, is still technically part of the armenian plateau/heartland. you on the other hand want all the lands given to armenia (safe kars, ani and ararat) in a legal treaty of sevres, not even 87 years ago, as part of a kurdistan, that has been regulated by no international treaty. you also got a country at sevres, why do you absolutely need ours???

you keep grossly inflating the numbers of kurds in the region of wilsonian armenia, and you keep forgetting that there arn't only 10 million 'kurds' as you say, but also 'turks' and let us not forget ( i hope you watched my video) that alot of these people that you call 'kurd' and 'turk' are actually armenians.

another point that seems to have completely slipped your mind is that, (besides the fact that kurds have only been living in wilsonian armenia for 88 years or so) is that kurds have, for centuries, up to just recently, been nomads. so if they didn't mind getting their caravans into my country 88 years ago, i don't see why they would have a problem getting them out today.

once again, i give you the example of right of return laws by greece, germany and isreal, where all peoples across the world of such origin are allowed to return and get citizenship in their native country.
this is the same for armenia, where if you can prove having at least one armenian grandparent, you are granted citizenship. this would be good enough, in the future, to repopulate the lands we have lost.

likewise, with a free and independent kurdistan just south of the border, what kurd would like to stay in a larger christian armenia? many of them would surely move on their own free will just for that reason.

do not try to accuse us of extremism.

the land we claim is this:


and the land you claim is


are we really the extremists??

think about that.
and remember this. it is my land, i do not hate kurds, but if i will fight a turk for it, i will have no problem fighting a kurd for it. the remnants of my ancestors have no more right to be in kurdish hands then turkish.

[Dîrî]

Good luck...

And no, Irlandahay has presented his idea...

[irlandahay]

Good luck...

And no, Irlandahay has presented his idea...

lets all stop talking for me.

I pic no side here. hosank was angry at the map because he thinks you claim all these lands. Iv known diri for a long time now and I know what eh wants, he is a smart guy and a realistic one. the flags werent made by him. its just a propaganda pece nothing more.

please, all of you calm down, the common enemy is turks, were not here to fight one another. Diri, alot of the lands are ours, I claim the one snearer the border and less populated. Fraknly, I dont mind if even the turks live on them, as long as they recognise the genocide, pay their dues and respect the monuments, fix them up, and not spread some c*ck and bull story of when "the turks used to be christians" to explain the gorgeous churches that just "landed" in turkeys back yard.

turks deserve a land just like everybody else...just not an extravagant pece of it!

now lets calm down and stop fighting each other...

[Hosank]

irlandahay, im sorry but your comment made very little sense.

no turk would happily live in armenia, which they have been tought to hate at Ataturk school since childhood.
what are you? you're like that guy in the L.A. riots of 92 who said "can't we all just get along?"
yes, we can all get along. when my land is my land. i don't care what happens to the rest of the land. ok?

jeez, yer all turning into a bunch of bloody pacisfists.

[Dîrî]

lets all stop talking for me.

I pic no side here. hosank was angry at the map because he thinks you claim all these lands. Iv known diri for a long time now and I know what eh wants, he is a smart guy and a realistic one. the flags werent made by him. its just a propaganda pece nothing more.

please, all of you calm down, the common enemy is turks, were not here to fight one another. Diri, alot of the lands are ours, I claim the one snearer the border and less populated. Fraknly, I dont mind if even the turks live on them, as long as they recognise the genocide, pay their dues and respect the monuments, fix them up, and not spread some c*ck and bull story of when "the turks used to be christians" to explain the gorgeous churches that just "landed" in turkeys back yard.

turks deserve a land just like everybody else...just not an extravagant pece of it!

now lets calm down and stop fighting each other...

Well said...

I agree with that 100%


@Hosank --- Not all Turks are ######... Don't ever think so - that would be your bad...

[Rumtaya]

Diri don’t even start claims about Kurdistan. Do you know what will happen to the Kurdish controlled area of Northern Iraq after the US withdraws? Their will be massacres of the Kurdish people. Kurds always side with the superpowers in attempts to get a Kurdistan. During Ottoman times you helped the Turks under the promise that you would get a Kurdish state. And now with the US…

10 years before the Iraq war. Southern Iraq was sanctioned and their was almost no trade to it. While the northern part of Iraq was open for trade and allowed to prosper. Kurds have always been betraying their neighbors in order to get a “Kurdistan”.

Northern Iraq will be just like Western Iran in 1945 all over again……

What about the fact that Van was a city founded by Armenians. Does this mean nothing to you? Or is all you think about self-determination and the right for a majority to rule themselves. Maybe where I live (Glendale) Armenians should rule. Since we are the majority. Kurds must have serious issues laying claim to half the Middle East when they have never even had a state.

I think it is you who is dreaming. Look at Armenia. We have already begun getting our historic land back in Azerbaijan. What have the Kurds done? Set up a self governed Northern Iraq when their was no government in Iraq? WOW, real hard. What do you think will happen when the government of Iraq is rebuilt? Backed by Iran, Syria, and Turkey who also don’t want the Kurds in their own countries to form a united Kurdistan?

I’ll let you use your imagination………. Kurds

Brother, many Kurds make their Kurdistan according to their population, so the "Kurdistan" claimed 90 years ago, isnt any more to compare with that one nowadays...since it nearl doubled or more...

The City in Northerneast Syria Qamishlo, is an Assyrian founded one, yet still Kurds claim it as part of Kurdistan, because they make there the majority...(this majority wasnt some 20 years ago)... The Syrian Goverment suppourted the pkk war and provided for many families shelter in the boarder area to turkey.

We Christian Nations have been opressed, massacred and forced to leave the last hundred of years, thats why we havnt been able to form a majority in whole of our homelands....


Still I am not saying, Kurds should leave the places where they are now or should be massacred, we arent like the Turks or Kurds.

There is for everything a peaceful way, but once should be said....don´t claim to much History has also its place in this issue!

[davit]

why did everyone started fighting i didnt get it

[Hosank]

diri...your comment was censored so i cannot really comment on it. but, i know how turkish education works, and i know what they teach them...i actually posted an article on it in the thrace section.
i do not believe that every turk is a bad person, but i do not believe they would live in peace with the armenians, after all that ataturkish education.

so let me say this again, the LEGAL land of armenia is that in my signature, i still do not understand how you find that is not extreme, since, theoretically, we could actually claim the land all the way to the mediteranian, since my family is from Kilikia, on the turkish south coast, once a powerful armenian crusader kingdom.

all we ask for is that little land of western armenia, and listen well, because, though i do not practice active hate, or any willful violence towards other people, and i do like kurds, but i will gladly kill any kurd, as much as any turk, for my country. my priority, is not the welfare of the kurdish people, but my fatherland, a concept a kurd may possibly not understand like an armenian.

once again, im not trying to be hostile to kurds...

[davit]

i would like to kill this white canadian vansgsta wanna be gansters theyr gettin on my nerves lately.

[Dîrî]

diri...your comment was censored so i cannot really comment on it. but, i know how turkish education works, and i know what they teach them...i actually posted an article on it in the thrace section.
i do not believe that every turk is a bad person, but i do not believe they would live in peace with the armenians, after all that ataturkish education.

so let me say this again, the LEGAL land of armenia is that in my signature, i still do not understand how you find that is not extreme, since, theoretically, we could actually claim the land all the way to the mediteranian, since my family is from Kilikia, on the turkish south coast, once a powerful armenian crusader kingdom.

all we ask for is that little land of western armenia, and listen well, because, though i do not practice active hate, or any willful violence towards other people, and i do like kurds, but i will gladly kill any kurd, as much as any turk, for my country. my priority, is not the welfare of the kurdish people, but my fatherland, a concept a kurd may possibly not understand like an armenian.

once again, im not trying to be hostile to kurds...

The "censored" part is where you put in any swear word you like...

And no, you are not only "hostile" - you also consider yourself better than the Kurds... You're comment realy was ridiculous - questioning if the Kurds understand the concept of "fatherland"...

We Kurds have a motherland... And we are damn proud of it...

And you're manipulating the truth: PROVE to me that the areas north of Wan were inhabited by Armenians by majority before the Genocide...

Then I will agree that it is Western Armenia...

I won't agree till you have given me unbiased sources saying so, either by statistics or by text...