Confession Of Hovannes Kachaznouni : Turks Were Right, Would American Senate hear the truth ? Don't think so. Options

[Mordoth]

1923, a report declared to the representatives of Dashnag comitee about Armenian question , Bucharest , Romania

( Report is signed and confirmed by Armenian governor Kachaznouni and telling about Armenian revolts in Ottoman period)

WE DECLARED WAR UPON TURKs

Autumn 1914, despite Turks have not choosen a side; energetic - chaotic volunteering Armenian gangs were started to be formed up in Southern Caucasus.

We uprised against the Turks. We 've fought to sabotage the peace. From not on, we were on the side of Allies.

OUR MINDS WERE CONFUSED

We fought with Turks. We killed , we were being killed. What sort of a trust could we maintain to Turks now? We were all confused. We have attended to military operations. We were deceived and bounded to Russia. RELOCATION was a TRUE decision and necessary. We could not see the truth, we are the cause of all the things happened .

Turkish National Struggle was right. Refusal of peace and arming were the greatest faults.We 've uprised against the Turks and fought with them. Pact de Sevres has blinded our eyes. The basis of our revolt was the dream of Greater Armenia which was promised to us by Allied. But we have never found / been a regular state. We could not see the truth that "Turkish Armenia" was nothing more than a dream.

TURKS HAVE DONE THE RIGHT THING

On Summer-Autumn of 1915, Armenians of Turkey were sentenced to a relocation. Turks knew what theyh were doing and today there is nothing that TURKs would feel regretful.

SABOTAGE of PEACE

Complainting about the destiny and searching the cause of our disasters out of us, are our pity.It is a charactheristic property of our sick national pshycology and DashnagZoutioun Party can not run away from this truth. We ceceded a state from Sea of Khazar to Mediterranean.

Armenian Prime Minister

Hovannes Kachaznouni

[HayArsen]

hahahaha

keep using tallarmeniantale as a reference

[Hosank]

.looool..
mordoth...
this sounds like a stalin era fake trial where they would force people do admit to all kinds of crimes that are totally propostrous and then execute them...did you even read it...

oh yes, turks were right, we joined the russians bla bla bla...
also, your thing is full of anarchonisms. for instance, you say that the armenians had already joined the russian struggle against turkey in 1914, even though turkey didn't declare war on russia till 1915...

if you want to lie about it, try harder

btw, mordy, have you gone out, burning spiderman and barbie dolls with your fellow compatriots lately?

[arrow]

.looool..
mordoth...
this sounds like a stalin era fake trial where they would force people do admit to all kinds of crimes that are totally propostrous and then execute them...did you even read it...

oh yes, turks were right, we joined the russians bla bla bla...
also, your thing is full of anarchonisms. for instance, you say that the armenians had already joined the russian struggle against turkey in 1914, even though turkey didn't declare war on russia till 1915...

if you want to lie about it, try harder

btw, mordy, have you gone out, burning spiderman and barbie dolls with your fellow compatriots lately?

Loool hosank.....

Please, but I mean it really please leave historical comments to someone who actually knows history....

1. Turkiye never entered WW1 ( founded on 1923 )

2. Ottoman Empire declared war at Russia on October 30th 1914....

About the article.. how do you know that it is a lie? Do you have anything proving that the story is a lie?

I mean it sounds more real than " my grand grand dad survived the genocide hiding under the bodies of his parents " ...

PS: It seems you not only sided/ joined with Russia but NAzis too. Tsk Tsk, I mean Russia I can understand but Nazis...

[Hosank]

arrow
it seems to me that you love to play that ottoman empire/turkey card when ever you see it fit. you are absolutely right i should have said the ottoman empire, but i am sure that you know that turkey is generally considered the successor state of the old empire. however, when it suits you to take pride in the achievements of your people, you have no problem mentioning turkey, anyways.

lol, actually if you want to be precise with your dates, it was october 29, when the 2 german battleships entered turkish waters and wat ever..

how ever the first engagement with the russian empire was between december 1914 and januari 1915

this ofcourse was the disastrous defeat for the ottoman empire at sarikamish. btw, you know that an armenian regiment fought in that war on the side of the ottomans, and enver pasha said they were the bravest of his soldiers, since they were the only ones who held the line after their defeat.

and btw, mordoth himself shows us the anachronism in one line:

Autumn 1914, despite Turks have not choosen a side; energetic - chaotic volunteering Armenian gangs were started to be formed up in Southern Caucasus.

basically, he himself is saying that the armenians 'revolted' before the war. then of course he states the treaty of sevres as the reason why they took up arms in 1914. how is that possible if the treaty of sevres was signed after armistice?
i mean really just read the text properly, and you will see that it looks like a forced confession. like, lets assume that what is depicted in the tale was true, would you really think the 'culprate' will pretty much praise his enemies like that? it feels like the guy would have been licking a turkish boot while saying that, which would make no sense.

btw mordoth, i located the site where you found this (tallarmeniantale of course). the guy said that what you posted was an introdocution to his book. however, ihave read this book, infact, i have it right here with me, and i am looking through the pages, and can't find it.

however. Kachaznouni was a member of the dashnak party, and in the twenties there was a debate about weather the dashnak party still has reason to exist. what kaxhaznouri did was write a book explaining why the efforts of dashaksutiun were no longer necessary. and of course hard liner dashnaks hid the book. but that is another story and has nothing to do with the subject at hand.

arrow, ill have you know something. for the 10 000 armenians who fought in the russian army in ww1, 100 000 fought on the ottoman side (till they were executed of course). now, we always hear the argument for 'deportations' by the turks, that the armenians had to be moved because or else they would rally with the armenians in the russian army.

however, the russian army was faced with an ottoman army with 100 000 armenians, why did they not decide to 'deport' the 2 million armenians living in the russian empire? why? can you answer that?

also, arrow, i thought that i had made it clear with a number of documents that 500 000 armenians fought on the side of the allies, of which 200 000 died fighting the nazis, when not even 10 000 joined the nazis. this seems to slip your mind constantly, especially when your own country was in a secret alliance with the nazis, which i also proved.
so instead of repeating the same obsanities, why don't YOU go learn your history?

[KHAZARI]

OTTOMAN EMPIRE AND MODERN TURKIYE ARE VERY VERY DIFERENT LIKE GERMANY IN 1939 NAZI AND MODERN GERMANY.........

[KHAZARI]

THE DIFFERENCE WHO GERMAN PEOPLE CHOICE IN HITLER AS A KANTSLER IN OTTOMAN EMPIRE NOBODY CHOICE THE SULTAN........

[HayArsen]

OTTOMAN EMPIRE AND MODERN TURKIYE ARE VERY VERY DIFERENT LIKE GERMANY IN 1939 NAZI AND MODERN GERMANY.........

Modern Germany does not deny the Jewish Holocaust, which makes them very different. They admit their ancestors mistake (Hitler and his propaganda), but at the same time they show that they wouldn't do anything like that right now. Not counting the few nazis in Germany of course. Also Germany has strong laws against publicly denying the holocaust.

Now take a look at modern Turkey and tell me, how much have they progressed on the issue.

[Hosank]

also, it was not the sultan that genocided the armenians (though he did massacre them only 20 years before)

it was the young turks, or the CUP

and yes, the ottoman empire is different than modern turkey, but not that much, basically it's the same ideology, without the prestige.

[arrow]

Well, as you surely know people around here tend to make historical mistakes and confuse dates. It is not like we are all historians.... Mordoth may have or may have not made a mistake about a date but the question of ermeni subjects revolting and siding with russians is out of debate. They sided with russians.. As most of the south eastern ermeni sided with the french.


And yes todays Turkiye is on the lands of Ottoman Empire but we are not the same eg; Empire and Democracy..

But as I said before I am proud of being a MONGOL+TURK+BYZANTINE ( the last I assume by my looks, I am not looking like a regular far east guy ) heritage. I am also proud of Selcuks who IMO are far more important than Ottomans in Turkish history.

[irlandahay]

1923, a report declared to the representatives of Dashnag comitee about Armenian question , Bucharest , Romania

( Report is signed and confirmed by Armenian governor Kachaznouni and telling about Armenian revolts in Ottoman period)

WE DECLARED WAR UPON TURKs

Autumn 1914, despite Turks have not choosen a side; energetic - chaotic volunteering Armenian gangs were started to be formed up in Southern Caucasus.

We uprised against the Turks. We 've fought to sabotage the peace. From not on, we were on the side of Allies.

OUR MINDS WERE CONFUSED

We fought with Turks. We killed , we were being killed. What sort of a trust could we maintain to Turks now? We were all confused. We have attended to military operations. We were deceived and bounded to Russia. RELOCATION was a TRUE decision and necessary. We could not see the truth, we are the cause of all the things happened .

Turkish National Struggle was right. Refusal of peace and arming were the greatest faults.We 've uprised against the Turks and fought with them. Pact de Sevres has blinded our eyes. The basis of our revolt was the dream of Greater Armenia which was promised to us by Allied. But we have never found / been a regular state. We could not see the truth that "Turkish Armenia" was nothing more than a dream.

TURKS HAVE DONE THE RIGHT THING

On Summer-Autumn of 1915, Armenians of Turkey were sentenced to a relocation. Turks knew what theyh were doing and today there is nothing that TURKs would feel regretful.

SABOTAGE of PEACE

Complainting about the destiny and searching the cause of our disasters out of us, are our pity.It is a charactheristic property of our sick national pshycology and DashnagZoutioun Party can not run away from this truth. We ceceded a state from Sea of Khazar to Mediterranean.

Armenian Prime Minister

Hovannes Kachaznouni

hehe I love how its FULL of spelling mistakes which is quite funny because its supposed to be an edited and printed book.

[Hosank]

oh right, democracy... ..how did i overlook such a crucial part of modern turkish life?

lol, and it seems to me that you are trying to save face by avoiding the subject.

yes, mordoth DID mess up the dates (well, actually it was tallarmeniantale that did) and that in itself, is enough to bring his whole argument down, since it was based on saying the armenians joined the russians before the war happened, which was untrue.

you ARE right, many armenians DID (though not all) favour the russians...but can you blame them? and most did, after they were disillusionned with the new young turk government, so in other words, after the battle of van, where most of the massacres began to happen.

my point is to say that armenians began favouring the russians after the genocide began, and for that very same reason, not the other way around, as the turks say (that the turks began to 'displace' the armenians because they 'betrayed' the empire, and sided with the russians.)
the mistake in both your and mordoth's chronology proves thisl

and you know what? you have the individual right to be proud of what ever the hell you want. (though i don't see how the byzantine goes with turkic lol)...and from your picture, i would say you do look quite middle eastern. but none the less, i don't see why you are saying this, because likewise, i could be proud of being bangladeshi as well as irish and armenian...

[arrow]

Actually you also do make historical mistakes more often than you believe to but you just don't value your mistakes as much as Mordoth's....


You just wrote the real root of the problem Hosank, you believe that you were betrayed and then sided with Ruski while we believe that you decided to have your freedom as the balkan provinces and sided with ruski and french thus deported..

I wrote what I am proud of becouse most of the "less educated " around the world confuses down syndrome and Mongol and use the term Mongol as a disclosed insult... Thanks God I have no metal disabilty and yes my roots go back to far east and I am 100 % happy with who I am.

Well here is a poem of an ermeni girl married to a Turk, her husband along with the rest of the village were killed by beheading infront of her. She was spared becouse she was an ermeni...

"Kara Osman'ın ağa mesudum
Bunları ben elimle verdim.
Bu ne hikmet ey Allahım
Gavura el aman dedim.

Amir memur demediler
Hep bir ipe bağladılar
Bekiroğlu Dede Ağa'yı
Demir ilen dağladılar.

Baş katibi öldürmüşler
Değnek ile döve döve
Kürt Genco'yu yüzüyorlar
Özne gibi öve öve

Hançer bıçak açıcılar
Gayrı beni kesiciler
Ayan olsun Doğan Bey'e
Urumluyu basıcılar."

[arrow]

hehe I love how its FULL of spelling mistakes which is quite funny because its supposed to be an edited and printed book.

Which later typed by someone to a web page, someone like you

[irlandahay]

Which later typed by someone to a web page, someone like you

now how am I ever going to recover from such a comeback. amazing!
I truly am impressed by your capabilities of making yourself look even stupider then usual.

If it was re-typed with mistakes, it puts in question the entire credibility of the article itself.

And as for your poem, I dont speak turkish, and she was spared not because she was an ermeni but because she had marryed a turk and accepted islam. This has happened many times during the genocide. When they became turkish instead of being armenian, there was no further need to kill them...

Hails

[arrow]

If it was re-typed with mistakes, it puts in question the entire credibility of the article itself.

So according to your logic the posts with spelling mistakes are not credible. And since almost all of your previous posts were full of mistakes ( logical and spelling wise ) their credibilities are in question..

[Hosank]

irlandahye, it is getting tireing to read your posts that focus soly on spelling mistakes as arguments, especially when you are not exactly the keenest speller on the forum (none of us are, and there is no point in using spelling as an argument when it should not be used)

the article that mordoth posted was not written by himself, but by the creator of tallarmenian tale. if there were spelling mistakes, maybe he made them, but who cares? because it is the creator of tallarmeniantale who is wrong, mordoth is just dupicating his error.

arrow:

You just wrote the real root of the problem Hosank, you believe that you were betrayed and then sided with Ruski while we believe that you decided to have your freedom as the balkan provinces and sided with ruski and french thus deported..

euh, lool, you think that armenians believe that? (that we loved the ottomans till they just killed us out of the blue, and that's why we sided with the russians?)

that is a false assumption. just like the people of the balkans, the armenians dreamed of independance, and it is true that if the turks had not genocided the armenians, they probably would have pressured for independance (which they got in 1917...though what was the point when most of their population was massacred anyways). the armenian nationalist sentiment started to appear after the hamidian massacres of the 1890s, they developped from constant mistreatment and oppression in the ottoman empire, prior to genocide. yes, armenians felt closer bonds to christian orthodox russia who had promised to protect their rights, than to the muslim ottoman empire thatdid the exact opposite. can you blame them? that does not make them trators. that does not mean they all took up arms agains the ottomans...

armenians could have been the biggest trators, or what ever you want to call them, even THAT would not have justified killing millions of women and children. displacing an entire people from it's ancient homeland, etc.

[arrow]

you don't have to love anyone to get along with them. It is called tolerance and one of the most important things to have inorder to live together, unless you have another choice.

Yes I believe that what you posted is more or less the root of the problem. There may have been bllod feuds before WW1 between ermeni-kurd or other ottoman subjects about god knows what reason but there was no governmental policy of relocation before WW1 era.

That is a fact, and even your "produced" history states that. And as you put it there is nothing that can justify the killings of the weak / kids/ old etc. And I know for fact that ermeni had their good share of killing those.

Do you know the siege of Van by Russian army? Do you konw how many died in that 72 hrs and how ?

I will never go into that part of anatolian history of WW1 but I am sure you know that your ancestors are not as innocent as a child...

[Hosank]

when you said that there was never any ottoman policy of relocation prior to ww1, you are right, because if we look at the pre ww1 history, we can see that sultan hamid's massacres of the armenians in the 1890s were pretty barbaric in fascion, basically arming convicts and irregulars and marching them into armenian towns, burning, raping, pillaging, and what ever, but not deporting.

i read in henry morgethau's autobiography that he thought that the idea of organised genocide, including deportation was inspired by ottoman turkey's ally, germany. since in 1914, germany had strategically deported populations of certain belgian towns.

past this point we differ greatly in interpretation of history.

when i said that assuming, in a totally unlikely case that armenians had participated in the worst kinds of treason, or terrorism, or what ever your government claims, there is no reason to whipe out a whole race, including women, children and old men.

what you did was grossely, and shamelessly corrupt this. i still do not see how you can honestly believe that while the ENTIRE turkish army was in that region busy deporting the armenians, after having lost a great many battles against the russians, the only fedayiin (warriors)[militias created to fight turkish troops] that your government calls terrorists, were busy fighting off the turkish soldiers...
when exactly did the armenian people find the time to just stroll around eastern anatolia murdering turks?

armenians have documents : i.e. land claims, life insurance policies with western companies (funny story to it, after having murdered entire families of armenians, talaat pasha claimed that since there were no surviving family members in those families, their life insurance should go to the state...can you imagine? trying to collect life insurance from those you massacred?;;;of course the insurance companies denied him the money...which is one of the greatest proofs of genocide..since this was written on paper and kept in their records). statistics, (number of armenians in certain towns prior to 1915)

my point is to say that we basically know almost exactly who was killed in the genocide. we can give names of real people, we can tell you which part of armenia they were from, we can tell you which town, village, which house they were from their jobs. when i hear counterclaims by turks that it was infact they who were murdered...all i hear is 'turks were killed by armenians'...but exactly which turks? who were they? what did they do in life? do they have names? and we always see numbers going from 50 000 to 5 million...it's all a joke.

you really want to talk about horrors during the siege of van?

The massacres continue in Van


Upon returning to Van, Jevdet "instigated a reign of terror in the outlying villages of the province on the pretext of searching for arms." In the process, the Turkish gendarmes indiscriminately murdered Armenians. [4] The Armenian leaders of Van in the meanwhile exhorted the people to endure in silence. "Better," they said, "that some villages be burned and destroyed unavenged than give the slightest pretext to the Moslems for a general massacre."

Local Armenian leaders Aram Manougian, Vramyan, Ishkhan, and Armenak Yekaryan told the Armenian population to remain loyal to the Ottoman government and not to antagonize it.[5] On April 15, 1915, Hans Freiherr von Wangenheim, the German ambassador in Constantinople, reported "that the Armenians have given up their ideas of a revolution since the introduction of the Constitution and that there is no organization for such a revolt".[6]

In mid-April of 1915, there was trouble in the village of Shadakh, not far from Van: a schoolmaster had been arrested, and there had been a local demonstration in his favour. At the request of Jevdet, several prominent Armenians from Van, led by Iskhan[7], went to mediate the dispute. Accompanied by Turkish guards of honor, they stopped midway in a village, where a feast was prepared for them. Here, on April 16, Ishkhan and his Armenian companions were treacherously murdered at the orders of Jevdet bay.

In the meantime, the massacres under the pretexts of an arms search continued. In self defense and retaliation, Armenians attacked a Turkish patrol to Jevdet's anger. Alarmed, Armenians in Van requested Dr. Clarence Ussher, missionary and representative of the United States, to mediate between them and Jevdet. Djevdet attempted to violate the diplomatic immunity of Ussher's compound by trying to garrison 50 Turkish soldiers inside. It became clear to Ussher that mediation attempts would be futile.

At the same time, Jevdet demanded that the city of Van furnish him 4,000 soldiers immediately under the pretexts of conscription. However, it was clear that his goals were to massacre the able bodied men of Van so as there would be no defenders, as he had done in the villages under the pretexts of arms searches, which had turned into massacres. [8]

The Armenians offered five hundred soldiers and to pay exemption money for the rest to buy time, however, Djevdet accused Armenians of "rebellion," and spoke of his determination to "crush" it at any cost. "If the rebels fire a single shot," he declared, "I shall kill every Christian man, woman, and" (pointing to his knee) "every child, up to here."


At the same time, the Turks had been constructing entrenchments around the Armenian quarter of Van and garrisoning them for some time. In response to this, the Armenians began to make preparations for a defense. They were protected by eighty manned and barricaded houses called teerks as well as walls and trenches.[9]

On April 19, Jevdet issued an order throughout the Van province, which read: "The Armenians must be exterminated. If any Muslim protect a Christian, first, his house shall be burnt; then the Christian killed before his eyes, then his [the Muslim's] family and himself." [10]. On the same day, Turkish soldiers attacked all Armenian villages in the Van province. [11]

April, 20

On the following day, shots were heard to the east of the city. According to American ambassador Henry Morgenthau, on April 20, 1915 Ottoman soldiers seized an Armenian women who wanted to enter the city. Two Armenian men that came to help were later shot dead. Morgenthau would remark that this act lead to the Turkish military forces to open fire upon Van with artillery, effectively laying it under siege.[12]

For the battle, Jevdet brought forth his self-proclaimed "kesab taburi," or butcher battalions, numbering some 5,000 men. [13] As a supplement, Jevdet also had artillery under the command of Rafael de Nogales. To counter them, the Armenian defenders had 1,500 able bodied riflemen who were supplied with 300 rifles and 1,000 pistols and antique weapons. The defenders were essentially protecting 30,000 residents and 15,000 refugees in an area of roughly one square kilometer of the Armenian Quarter and suburb of Aigestan. Jevdet earlier had allowed Armenian survivors from the villages, now refugees to enter the city through his lines as part of his strategy to subdue the defenders with more ease.


After easily fighting off the initial assaults, the Armenian defenders of Van with the leadership of Aram of Van, established a local provisional government dealing with defense, provisions, and administration – and foreign relations, to ensure that the neutrality of foreign property was respected. Judges, police and health officials were appointed.[14]

Their supply of ammunition was not great, so they were very sparing of it and employed all sorts of devices to draw the fire of the enemy and waste their ammunition. They also began to make bullets and cartridges, manufacturing 2,000 a day. The defenders also improvised mortars and barricades, and made use of anything they could find.

As part of their strategy, they also attacked the nearby Turkish barracks, but besides this, they did not take many offensive actions. Their numbers were too few, and they were only fighting for their homes and families. Their conflict was with Jevdet, not the Muslim population of the city at large. [15]

it goes on, but i hope you get the point. you do not seem to understand. this is not some sort of a game...like.."oh this happened, no this happened" you are playing the the legacies of some 1.5 million people that died in the most horrendous ways.

[arrow]

I also read the story of H. Morgenthau, and I also came across this...

Critiques of Ambassador Morgenthau's Story

""In 1920s Ambassador Morgenthau’s Story subjected to criticism by two prominent American historians. Sidney Bradshaw Fay, an authority on European diplomatic history,a recognised American authority on the question of war guilt and the writer of The Origins of the World War. In the journal Kriegschuldfrage, May, 1925 criticised the sixth chapter of the ambassador's book, on the delay of German war initiation for two weeks or legend of the Potsdam Crown Council of July 5th and commented:

The contemporary documents now available prove conclusively that there is hardly a word of truth in Mr. Morgenthau’s assertions, either as to (a) the persons present, (b) the Kaiser’s attitude toward delay, © the real reasons for delay, or (d) the alleged selling of securities in anticipation of war. In fact his assertions are rather the direct opposite of the truth.

Harry Elmer Barnes, in his The Genesis of the World War; an Introduction to the Problem of War Guilt (New York: Knopf, 1926), pp. 241-247) which largely consist of a Sidney Bradshaw Fay quote concludes:

In This luxuriant and voluptuous legend (Kaiser’s alleged Potsdam conference) was not only the chief point in the Allied propaganda against Germany after the publication of Mr. Morgenthau’s book, but it has also been tacitly accepted by Mr. Asquith in his apology, and solemnly repeated by Bourgeois and Pages in the standard conventional French work, both published since the facts have been available which demonstrate that the above tale is a complete fabrication. ... As Mr. Morgenthau has persistently refused to offer any explanation or justification of his "story" or to answer written inquiries as to his grounds for believing it authentic, we are left to pure conjecture in the circumstances. It appears highly doubtful to the present writer that Mr. Morgenthau ever heard of the Potsdam legend while resident in Turkey. It would seem inconceivable that he could have withheld such important information for nearly four years. The present writer has been directly informed by the Kaiser that Wangenheim did not see him in July, 1914. We know that Mr. Morgenthau’s book was not written by himself, but by Mr.Burton J. Hendrick, who later distinguished himself as the editor of the Page letters. We shall await with interest Mr. Hendrick’s explanation of the genesis of the Potsdam fiction as it was composed for Ambassador Morgenthau’s Story.""

The thing is the books that your claims mostly depend on is not credible. And no I don't take such things lightly nor consider these as a game ..

I do my homework, I read all and anything I can find, ermeni, Turk, or any other source available. And trust me, if it comes to prove your point in historical ways you have no chance, the lies you were fed on will be discovered. Thus you will only try political ways.

regards.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Morgenthau%2C_Sr.

[irlandahay]

So according to your logic the posts with spelling mistakes are not credible. And since almost all of your previous posts were full of mistakes ( logical and spelling wise ) their credibilities are in question..

If you took the time to properly read my posts you wouldnt be wasting space on this page like that.
I wasnt commenting on Mordoth's spelling, I was saying that usually (i dont know about turkey) when a book is being published, it goes through a whole process of editing. The book passes through a bunch of different people who's job it is to make sure no spelling mistakes are left. After that, the book is printed. Same goes for any translation. So what I'm trying to say is that an authentic publication (a REAL confession) wouldnt usually be so rittled with common spelling mistakes...unless it was a forgery

And Hosank, same goes for you, if you dont understand the nature of my post ask me, mi eskesir medz peranovt esh.

[Mordoth]

What are you two infantile Are-Many-Ones still discussing about?

Declaration of Kachasnouni is right there, you have had to read it for couple of times , since you 2 have mental problems .

[arrow]

If you took the time to properly read my posts you wouldnt be wasting space on this page like that.
I wasnt commenting on Mordoth's spelling, I was saying that usually (i dont know about turkey) when a book is being published, it goes through a whole process of editing. The book passes through a bunch of different people who's job it is to make sure no spelling mistakes are left. After that, the book is printed. Same goes for any translation. So what I'm trying to say is that an authentic publication (a REAL confession) wouldnt usually be so rittled with common spelling mistakes...unless it was a forgery

And Hosank, same goes for you, if you dont understand the nature of my post ask me, mi eskesir medz peranovt esh.

And what I tried to tell was, the book later typed into a web page by someone who apperantly doesn't care for spelling but rather integrity of the text, to a web page. Try to see the forest my little friend

[irlandahay]

And what I tried to tell was, the book later typed into a web page by someone who apperantly doesn't care for spelling but rather integrity of the text, to a web page. Try to see the forest my little friend

If he is typeing whats written in a book isnt the logical thing not to change it?

anyways all this is useless cuz we have the book and there was no such thing, and Tallarmeniantale is known for this kind of garbage. I'l give you an example. He wrote that franz werfel, told him before he died that Armenains forced him by terrorism to write the book 40 days of musa dagh, but whats funny is that Franz Werfel died in 1945 when the creator of TAT was born in 1960... hmmmmm

its garbage, you have to come up with better than that

[arrow]

If he is typeing whats written in a book isnt the logical thing not to change it?

anyways all this is useless cuz we have the book and there was no such thing, and Tallarmeniantale is known for this kind of garbage. I'l give you an example. He wrote that franz werfel, told him before he died that Armenains forced him by terrorism to write the book 40 days of musa dagh, but whats funny is that Franz Werfel died in 1945 when the creator of TAT was born in 1960... hmmmmm

its garbage, you have to come up with better than that

Hey wake up, this is not TAT this is a speech of an ermeni. You wrote all for nothing, say something related to the topic just for once

[irlandahay]

Hey wake up, this is not TAT this is a speech of an ermeni. You wrote all for nothing, say something related to the topic just for once

I have, your just hard headed and dont really seem to have much logic.
I told you we have the book and there is no such speech.

I want proof that this text is true, I already know it isnt and you havnt managed to prove otherwise.
You said it yourself someone just typed it, wether he had the book or not is an unknown fact and I highly doubt he did.

Your reasoning is pathetic...

[arrow]

I have, your just hard headed and dont really seem to have much logic.
I told you we have the book and there is no such speech.

I want proof that this text is true, I already know it isnt and you havnt managed to prove otherwise.
You said it yourself someone just typed it, wether he had the book or not is an unknown fact and I highly doubt he did.

Your reasoning is pathetic...

Just scan the text and post it here, it may save you more time.

[irlandahay]

Just scan the text and post it here, it may save you more time.

what do you mean?

[arrow]

I have, your just hard headed and dont really seem to have much logic.
I told you we have the book and there is no such speech.

You wrote that you have the book. Just scan the pages that is related about the topic and post them, that would save us time.

[irlandahay]

You wrote that you have the book. Just scan the pages that is related about the topic and post them, that would save us time.

that doesnt make any sense. theres nothing that relates to it because the entire page posted is a forgery. your asking me to scan something that doesnt exist...

[Hosank]

hey arrow, just want to say thanks for posting that article on morgenthau.

first off, you used a quote of morgenthau with absolutely no link to the one i used, but that's ok, lets just of a second speak of what you wrote..

as you, i also do my research.
for instance, i always take a look at the 'discussion' section of wikipedia articles, something i suggest you should do aswell. in this case, we can see that it is a turk who added that quote of yours.
but you know what, i am glad you posted this. turks have many times tried to debate the accuracy of morgenthau's book.
your quote states that he didn't even write that book. that may be true, but keep in mind that people in those days did not make use of their own hands to write their stories, but had professional writers do to it for them, for instance, we say hitler wrote mein kampf, but he actually dictated it to his cellmate, rudolf hess. this does not mean that the ideas of mein kampf belong to hess, but to hitler. same with morgenthau.
also, i quoted from morgenthau's diary, which is a day to day account of fact, not his autobiography which was written later. some of the things that these denialist 'professors' claim are infact historically untrue anyways.
here,have fun with this turkish nationalist article that was the basis for that post of yours
http://www.tetedeturc.com/home/spip.php?article78
and once you're done reading that garbage, i suggest you read his book
http://net.lib.byu.edu/~rdh7/wwi/comment/m...au/MorgenTC.htm

cheerio

[Hosank]

What are you two infantile Are-Many-Ones still discussing about?

mordoth, usually you stupify me with your bizarre sense of logic, but this, i like...
it is 'armenians', but at the same time it proves our reality..we are MANY, dispersed around the world because of barbarism, yet we are all ONE..thanks mordoth, do you mind if i use it?

[arrow]

hey arrow, just want to say thanks for posting that article on morgenthau.

first off, you used a quote of morgenthau with absolutely no link to the one i used, but that's ok, lets just of a second speak of what you wrote..

as you, i also do my research.
for instance, i always take a look at the 'discussion' section of wikipedia articles, something i suggest you should do aswell. in this case, we can see that it is a turk who added that quote of yours.
but you know what, i am glad you posted this. turks have many times tried to debate the accuracy of morgenthau's book.
your quote states that he didn't even write that book. that may be true, but keep in mind that people in those days did not make use of their own hands to write their stories, but had professional writers do to it for them, for instance, we say hitler wrote mein kampf, but he actually dictated it to his cellmate, rudolf hess. this does not mean that the ideas of mein kampf belong to hess, but to hitler. same with morgenthau.
also, i quoted from morgenthau's diary, which is a day to day account of fact, not his autobiography which was written later. some of the things that these denialist 'professors' claim are infact historically untrue anyways.
here,have fun with this turkish nationalist article that was the basis for that post of yours
http://www.tetedeturc.com/home/spip.php?article78
and once you're done reading that garbage, i suggest you read his book
http://net.lib.byu.edu/~rdh7/wwi/comment/m...au/MorgenTC.htm

cheerio

I read both and have a copy of the original book of M. story.

[Hosank]

did you like it?

what was your favourite part...

(meanwhile, lets not try to spneak past the real subject at hand...since you chose not to answer my previous article about van, instead you just posted crap of wikipedia on morgenthau...so why don't we go back to discussing what we had going there)

[arrow]

did you like it?

what was your favourite part...

(meanwhile, lets not try to spneak past the real subject at hand...since you chose not to answer my previous article about van, instead you just posted crap of wikipedia on morgenthau...so why don't we go back to discussing what we had going there)

I posted that "crap" becouse I wanted to tell that in WW1 era a guy living in Istanbul can not have knowledge from first hand about all those places he mentioned in his book. Most of his info came from ermeni people and priests..


And his book is the " crap" as you put it. If your genocide claims are based on this and the "blue book" then you may kiss your future plans bye bye

[irlandahay]

I posted that "crap" becouse I wanted to tell that in WW1 era a guy living in Istanbul can not have knowledge from first hand about all those places he mentioned in his book. Most of his info came from ermeni people and priests..
And his book is the " crap" as you put it. If your genocide claims are based on this and the "blue book" then you may kiss your future plans bye bye

That doesnt make sense.

He is an international representative and has contacts to all kinds of other international representatives.
For instance, he had telegrams sent by the consulate of Aleppo. Also, he isnt the only one that documented the massacres. There are Frech archives, American archives, Russian, Even german who were your allies, in fact most pictures come from Armin Wegner, A german soldier who whitnessed the atrocities.

Its you guys (and maybe azegarbageland) against the civilised world... it wont be long turk, give it up!

[Hosank]

lol...how much do you know about international diplomacy?

you know that when you carry the title EMBASSADOR morgenthau....that actually means you're and EMBASSADOR...and embassadors would be the best people to know this. Morgenthau knew the members of the young turks personally, and he whitnessed alot of their genocidal decisions. also, the american government held consulates in every major province in the eastern ottoman empire, in diarbakir, van, erzerum, all the way to allepo. my point is that just about every american consulate has seen what happened. the americans at the start of the deportation routes saw it start, and those in allepo saw most of it's end. and guess what, these people report to the main embassy in constantinople.
i have a book, right infront of me, containing all the american archives, mostly telegrammes, from 1913 to 1916. it has all the telegrammes sent by conculates to the main embassy, and from the embassy to washington, if you want, i can type them for you.
I highly doubt that you actually read the book, because morgenthau did not say that he 'saw' all these things, but rather that he had recieved word from his consulates.
just admit it, you didn't read the book, you just read the tallarmeniantale critique of it.

the blue book? lol, arrow, how much time do you have on your hands? it seems you have sat down, and read and memorised the entire tall armenian tale website, because you are reciting it to me now. this is old news btw. (just to keep you informed, since it seems that turkish denialist websites are no longer up to date), they tried to counter the blue book, in england some 3 years ago, with no success.

and no, i do not base my entire genocide 'assumptions' on a book. i base it on the fact that my family has lived through it, my grandfather has told his story, his brother, in the ottoman army told his story, and my great aunt, who was seperate from my grandfather till they met in aleppo told a very similar story of what happened to her. also, when i talk to my friends granparents (or did since many of them have died) i swear it sounds just like the words comming out of my grandfather's mouth, even when say my grandfather was in cilicia, and these people are from mush, or sassun, or kars or where ever. they all tell the same story. when i was in armenia, as i told you, i met with survivors who had fled east, they told me the saaaame story, how many people, old people, would be lying about it? and lie so accurately after 90 years? these events were imprinted in their minds, they cannot pretend, or invent, or forget...