Missle Shield Relocation? Options

[Glock21]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070607/ap_on_re_eu/bush


If it happens, and Mr. Putin is all for it, it is great news for Azerbaijan.

[arrow]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070607/ap_on_re_eu/bush
If it happens, and Mr. Putin is all for it, it is great news for Azerbaijan.

Bush Jr said it was an interesting offer. I don't think it will work becouse we all know it is against Russia.

[Hosank]

i really don't understand this...
putin is opposed to placing missles in the czech republic or poland which don't directly touch russia, but he is instead offering to use azeri installations for it? izn't azerbaijan even closer to russia???

anyways, i hope it doesn't happen..

[arrow]

i really don't understand this...
putin is opposed to placing missles in the czech republic or poland which don't directly touch russia, but he is instead offering to use azeri installations for it? izn't azerbaijan even closer to russia???

anyways, i hope it doesn't happen..

Hosnak I think it is becouse Russia has palns about Europe but has no interest in Azerbaycan nor armenia...

And I also hope it doesn't happen becouse when they settle they settle for good.

[Glock21]

This was a shrewd move by Putin. Actually pretty smart. And I don't think the US will bite at this after all; the Administration seems set on putting the system in E. Europe, regardless of whether Azerbaijan is a more strategic location if one's goal is monitoring and defeating Iranian missles.

[HayArsen]

Another cold war....

[arrow]

Another cold war....

I think this is all part of the energy game. Bush familiy is sending a clear message to possible future oppponents.

[Hosank]

naahh..
anways, a missle system in azerbayjan is not what will detect a missle from north korea..and i find it funny, that we havn't even heard of azerbaijan's stance in all this..

[Glock21]

Oh, they are all for it... Putin held meetings with the Azeri political and military authorities before even proposing it to Bush. The Azeris know that a missle shield on their territory, with all the billions of USD in infrastructure and support that comes along with it, would force the US to ensure its security, and its investment.

[Hosank]

yeh, well i find those azeris funny...

[Glock21]

yeh, well i find those azeris funny...

Well, Armenia would love to have it on their soil as well, but Russia would never allow it. No country willingly would turn down a huge investment of this magnitude.

[Hosank]

yeh, you are right...
but, it would be more complicated for armenia, because of iran.
and, i mean, that azerbaijan wants the us investment, in order to protect it against armenian incursions..which would obviously never happen

[arrow]

I agree Hosank but for different reasons. Bush Jr. is so stubborn he never steps back. He will have them on the first declared positions.

[Hosank]

well,..

what ever gets russia and the USA on the same side, since they need to work together not against eachother

[arrow]

well,..

what ever gets russia and the USA on the same side, since they need to work together not against eachother

Never gonna happen.

[Hosank]

you like to see alot of negative eh?

[arrow]

you like to see alot of negative eh?

Well, I think USA loved to be the only super power lately.

[Glock21]

Well, I think USA loved to be the only super power lately.

Of course they love it. They have every right to love it - they won the Cold War. Now the game is preventing any other nation from becoming a superpower.

[Hosank]

i did not say russia would be a super power..

and yes, if the americans were smart though, they would play india and pakistan against each other, thus bogging china down in a regional conflict and preventing it from reaching super power status..

[Glock21]

i did not say russia would be a super power..

and yes, if the americans were smart though, they would play india and pakistan against each other, thus bogging china down in a regional conflict and preventing it from reaching super power status..

Oh we are playing India vs. Pakistan way more than Iran vs. Iraq. Look at US-Pakistani relations since 9-11 - a full 180 degree turn. We are supplying them billions upon billions in military and other aid for their (half-azzed) anti-Taliban and anti-Al qaeda efforts. We are basically keeping Musharraf in power.

At the same time, we have confirmed India's right to nuclear armament and build-up, while saying Iran cannot, making Pakistan very uncomfortable.

[Hosank]

in that case, lets just hope..

[arrow]

I think China is already a super power, much more than we anticipated.

China is groving hugely every year and investing their money into US finances. Think what would have happened if they decided to use , lets say EURO instead of US dollars. The results would be devestating. And all the military arsenal that China has would definetly stop USA to use agression against them.

I think our Asian friends are playing a very good game but US arrogancy is simply avioding any real action against them.

[Hosank]

china is no superpower yet, it still has a long way to go..

[arrow]

china is no superpower yet, it still has a long way to go..

Have you ever been to China.

[Glock21]

China is a very poor third world country outside of the eastern ring of metropolii. Give them 30 years and they will be a superpower though. And by that time their military might be a threat to American hegemony in Asia and on the seas, but not any time soon.

[Hosank]

i agree somewhat with glock...

the image of a modern china is quite a farse played apon by the chinese communist party, the reality is that the great majority of the country is extremely poor, and alot of the skyscrapers in china are built by contract workers brought from the farms who don't get payed after the building is completed...often those buildings stay empty...


anyways, let's home it does not become one...

[arrow]

Yea but the thing is USA does the same. Only they have immigrant Mexians to do the work for them..

NAyways, they are the 3rn nation to do space programme and have lots of nukes. Super enough for me.

[Hosank]

i doubt that a liberal system would work on slave labour, since, somewhere in the equation, there would be a hole...it's all macroeconomics my friend. your thought would not work.

there are nukes in kazakstan, and the russian space programme is there too..are they a super power?

[arrow]

i doubt that a liberal system would work on slave labour, since, somewhere in the equation, there would be a hole...it's all macroeconomics my friend. your thought would not work.

That is where the system faults. The mexican immigrants that desperatly need jobs are forced to work in awful conditions and they are paid dirt money for over 18 hrs a day. Just read papers and see the debate about them going on today in USA.

there are nukes in kazakstan, and the russian space programme is there too..are they a super power?

No becouse they didn't produce them and it is not their own space programme developed by their scientists...

[Hosank]

what i mean is that, unlike what you said, the american liberal-economic system does not run soly on mexian 'slave labour' as you put it...if that was the case, the economy would crash.


and yah, that was a joke...but japan for instance has a space programme, and isreal has nukes, yet they are not considered superpowers...
superpowers usually have the ability to deploy all over the world, like the british, back in the day, and the amerikanskiz these days

[davit]

Hosnak I think it is becouse Russia has palns about Europe but has no interest in Azerbaycan nor armenia...

And I also hope it doesn't happen becouse when they settle they settle for good.

first its hosank nd second if russia isnt interested in armenia why is it has its

army at armenia - turkey border protecting armenia

[arrow]

first its hosank nd second if russia isnt interested in armenia why is it has its

army at armenia - turkey border protecting armenia

Russian army is there becouse US army is in Turkiye. Wolrd politics demand equlibrium and Russia is trying hard to maintain it....



And be real Davit, there is no threat against Ermenistan from Turkiye.

[veritas]

China is a very poor third world country outside of the eastern ring of metropolii. Give them 30 years and they will be a superpower though. And by that time their military might be a threat to American hegemony in Asia and on the seas, but not any time soon.

Very poor you say?

by what reckoning do you come up with this statement?

At present rate of growth they will be the world largest economy by 2015.

They own 40% of ALL US treasury bonds right now.

I would not call that poor, or third world. not by a long shot.


And for any of you guys that think the cold war is over.....think again there is absoluteley no evidence to support that and a tonne of evidence that says they still almost at one anothers throats.

Boris Yeltzin said quite famously i may add that " Russia has played it's dirtiest hand yet.....depriving America of it's enemy".

Touche Boris.


With them calling themselves an "energy superstate" already, another blatently cold war is emminent as opposed to one that is done with a smile and a handshake.

How can there be anything but this outcome with Russia pushing American interests out of central Asia as far as energy reserve are concerned. The yanks will get a driblle of it now as opposed to the torrent they were promised.

No cash chopper....cash no, no cash.

And then America plays it's hand by putting a crap anti missile shield (that does not work) in russia's backyard.....you have to be kidding, that has monkey boy jnr written all over it.........doesnt he hire someone to make foriegn policy for him? my god.

mean while Russia holds western europe TO RANSOM with energy supplies.

looks like AMerica has finally been out played to me. but this story is by no means over.

but then again we will see what happen with Iran, it is in russian interests for this war to go ahead,

they will also be a super power in the coming decades it seems.

[Glock21]

These "projections" range from 2025 to 2050, not 2015. And by the IMF's per capita GDP, Azerbaijan is ranked higher than China

[veritas]

These "projections" range from 2025 to 2050, not 2015. And by the IMF's per capita GDP, Azerbaijan is ranked higher than China

BUt Azerbaijan's economy is not grounded in anything but oil boom which will overheat and explode and they will end up with hyper inflation.

china's is backed by production of almost all the consumables of the first world. not just oil.

as i said at the present rate of growth.........it will decline over the next ten years.

but that leaves china/america with another problem.

what the hell is china gonna do with those bonds when they are worth less than the yuan?

if they dont get rid of them soon then it will cuae a huge issue later on when they are worth less than now.

[Hosank]

but there is a difference between china being a large economy, and the chinese communist party with the holdings of the us treasury...

and, actually russian troops pattrol the border because der-pedrossian had an agreement with them back in the day..i doubt i has anything to do with the US bases..

and, i remember hearing about turkish troops massing on the armenian borders not so long ago as 1994

[arrow]

and, i remember hearing about turkish troops massing on the armenian borders not so long ago as 1994

You heard wrong then.

[Hosank]

sorry, let me rephrase..

i heard, saw, read, and watched...and as smelly as turks are, unfortunately, that does not go across oceans, so i did not smell..

so, did 4 out of 5 sense above mentionned fail?

[arrow]

sorry, let me rephrase..

i heard, saw, read, and watched...and as smelly as turks are, unfortunately, that does not go across oceans, so i did not smell..

so, did 4 out of 5 sense above mentionned fail?

Yes, you probably lost control of your feelings becouse of fear. And the fear here would be the fear of the Turkish army that is supposed to on your border.

Also I don't see anyreason to explain you anything that Turkish Army does, who are you, president of Turkiye

[Hosank]

armenians know no fear..

and if the turkish army was to fear, then obviously, it would be because it was there...no?
and, yah right, who would want to be president of turkey these days?

[arrow]

armenians know no fear..

and if the turkish army was to fear, then obviously, it would be because it was there...no?
and, yah right, who would want to be president of turkey these days?

Hahaha man you are a joke.

In these forums you whined about our blockade, our army, our help to Azarbaycan, our media, our people in general, our everything.. You are ofcourse scared to death from us. That is why you go to everynation on Earth and try to get their support becouse you know very well that you can't take us, not in economically, militaryly nor politically alone.

yes truth hurts but your nation compared to mine is like little kid, as one of your fellow ermeni debaters posted here.

Oh and I know you'd rather be a politician in ermenistan becouse you prefer to be a racist thug rather than being in a democratic system....

[Hosank]

you know, in all your knowledge, you clearly do not know the difference between being threatened, and being affraid.

you do not have to fear a threat for it to be a threat none-the less

your army, your policies, your media threaten us, they do not 'scare' us.

i am no fool, and i do not pretend that armenia is a stronger nation then turkey, yet, you must realise that pure numbers do not righfully compare the strenght ratio between 2 countries, especially if you choose to ignore everything else around you, such as your own 5th colomn, the kurds, your alienation from just about every country around you, (greece, irak, armenia, russia, georgia, bulgaria, romania) who can simply disrupt your economy in a time of war, something you may not do to hurt armenia, for you have already been doing so since 1994. im sure that if you look at a topographic map of armenia, you would see that it is not exactly that easy for an army who's origins are the steppes of central asia to enter armenia. even the azeris, your brothers, couldn't do it, yet they were 7 times larger then us, had an army, and petrol.

do not worry, i am sure that if you put the entire army of armenia on a field right infront of the entire army of turkey, that it would be a blood bath, but do not think that wars are fought like that.

Oh and I know you'd rather be a politician in ermenistan becouse you prefer to be a racist thug rather than being in a democratic system....

funny thing to say, coming from a guy defending turkey's opinion on this debate.
http://www.stateofworldliberty.org/report/rankings.html
see, armenia has a score of 79 in over-all liberties. turkey is at 84, and your little brother azerbaijan is at 137
and here is your world economic freedom index: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indices_of_Economic_Freedom
armenia is 27th, turkey is 85th and azerbaijan is 123rd

point is, before you accuse us of being racists, or fascists, look at your own country, your own history, and keep going...
i suggest you open your eyes to your own problems first

[arrow]

You are a racist and you are scared. I am (unlike you) not a lawyer, proffesor of history, a military mastermind and a politican at the same time

But I am confident in my states powers, so the outcome of a war is already clear.

Kurds.... You put your trust in others a lot. The same mistake your ancestors did in WW1... Learn from history kiddo.

[Hosank]

clearly not an english teacher either i should assume..

You are a racist and you are scared

boohoo, skicks and stones can brake my bones, but words can never hurt me. you can call me a racist for as long as you wish, but that will not affect the way i sleep tonight.

But I am confident in my states powers,

in the same way as i trust others too much, you trust yourself too much.

and, i am smart enough to know that armenia could never beat turkey in a one on one conlfict. you on the other hand do not see the regional implications of such a war. what i am saying is, try to fight the armenians, while you are busy with the turkish kurds, the iraki kurds, the greeks, the ponts, the russians, the georgians, the romanians and all those other nice people, weather directly or indirectly. you can have 400 planes of 800 planes, that does not automatically make you win a war.

[arrow]

Oh but the war, if it ever happens, will be between you and us. Nobody else will inerfere believe me.

Romania, cmon did we also genocided them

[irlandahay]

Hahaha man you are a joke.

In these forums you whined about our blockade, our army, our help to Azarbaycan, our media, our people in general, our everything.. You are ofcourse scared to death from us. That is why you go to everynation on Earth and try to get their support becouse you know very well that you can't take us, not in economically, militaryly nor politically alone.

yes truth hurts but your nation compared to mine is like little kid, as one of your fellow ermeni debaters posted here.

Oh and I know you'd rather be a politician in ermenistan becouse you prefer to be a racist thug rather than being in a democratic system....

I think we are all here laughing at you. I find turks on these forums quite funny. let me give you an example. here you are laughing calling us cowards, and then when you are faced with an argument, you continue with the same story "you fear us oohooo yay!". and then, being the only turk on this forum, you put a little smiley of victory at the end to show as if youv proven some kind of point. its sad really.

and you wailed about us spreading genocide "lies", about our "terrorist" groups killing "innocent" turks, and our brave men liberating artsakh.

you see the truth is, you say we fear you only because you fear us. its simple really and I can tell by every post you make that we are gaining ground and you are loosing some.

you feared us ever since our handfulls of men helped you destroy the sultan, you saw the threat and you tryed to whipe us out. you feared us because a handful of men with a bunch of old hunting rifles were able to hold off turkish armys for months in places as remote as Musa Dagh, Zeitoun, Sassoun...
you feared us in 192, when a small group of young men known as nemesis tracked down and served justice, in the name of all the people who suffered at the hands of your government. you feared us in 1923 when a small untrained war band held off at Sartarabad against an entire division of well trained Kemalist men. you feared us in the 60's 70's and 80's, when a bunch of misguided young men saw no other option then terrorism, for getting the message across, because the world refused to listen. you feared us in the 90's when a bunch of old villagers in artsakh, who refused to die, fought a war outnumbered 5 to 1 and still came out victorious. and yet today, you fear us, because our position is strategic, our economy is growing stably, our government is strengthening, our people are uniting and you fear us most of all turk, because your time has come!

Long live Hyeasdan!

[Hosank]

irlandahye, lets have some constintancy please, first you find an action really funny, then you find it sad. other then that, there a few factual inconhearences in your post, for instance, the role played by the dashnaksutiun (a party not even representing the entire armenian people) was quite minimal in the deposing of sultan hamid.

and that sorta speech doesn't really make sense in a topic such as missile shield relocation though..

meanwhile,

Romania, cmon did we also genocided them

you don't need to genocide a nation for it to be labelled opression, that is what you turks don't understand..you seem to think that, oh, we let you armenians live for 300 years, that means we were good an generous, that is not a mentality to take.
you don't need to genocide people to piss them off either..

[irlandahay]

irlandahye, lets have some constintancy please, first you find an action really funny, then you find it sad. other then that, there a few factual inconhearences in your post, for instance, the role played by the dashnaksutiun (a party not even representing the entire armenian people) was quite minimal in the deposing of sultan hamid.

and that sorta speech doesn't really make sense in a topic such as missile shield relocation though..

meanwhile,

you don't need to genocide a nation for it to be labelled opression, that is what you turks don't understand..you seem to think that, oh, we let you armenians live for 300 years, that means we were good an generous, that is not a mentality to take.
you don't need to genocide people to piss them off either..

well thank you hosank for so kindly pointing all that out...

and may i remind you that your previous post ALSo didnt have much to do with a missile shield re-location?

just a friendly reminder right Hosank?

[arrow]

@ IrishHay, I really love our posts man. And do you seriously believe the last paragraph

@ Hosank, correction please, 600 years under Ottoman rule and before that Selcuks and before that Mongols and before that Gokturks and Huns.

Oh and according to you we opressed everyone, even ourselves

[irlandahay]

@ IrishHay, I really love our posts man. And do you seriously believe the last paragraph

prove me wrong arrow...i dare you

lately all I see you do is criticize all posts but you can never come up with a decent answer.
now do it, i dare you, do it arrow!