Congrats, On the US victory of ermeni diaspora Options

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As the Turkish saying goes " bükemedigin bilegi öpeceksin " I want to congratulate the ermeni diaspora members here.

Although it changes nothing and I stand where I was I really admire the efforts you people spend there to achieve your goals.


And a little reminder , for the solution you need us not anybody else.

[Hosank]

thank you, but we only won the first round.

the congress still hasn't recognised it. that's this friday i believe.

and yes, we need you, so when the turkish people will come to terms with it's past, when the turkish people will speak up against the lies of it's government, then we will see some changes, because so far, all i see is arnold shwartzenegger books and spiderman dolls being burnt (lol, btw they are made in china, not the US, so it's not the USs economy you are hurting)

[HayArsen]

I knew about Arnold Shwarzenegrs (or w/e) books being burnt, but did they actually destroy Spiderman toys?

And thank you for your comment arrow. I hope on day we can be friends.

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Honestly I don't watch everyday news from Turkiye so I have no idea about the toys and all

Also I heard a government official saying " we will take some measurements against USA but our real target will be ermenistan becouse they are the masterminds behind all this" ...

He mentioned about closing airspace to all ermenistan flights, not allowing any other countries goods to pass by our seas nor airspace and deporting the illegal immigrants known to work in Istanbul ( estimated some 70,000 people)... I feel frustrated to see action and reaction type of politics, I think a comitee of historians + scientists of nations that had parts in WW1 era should come together and find a way to talk about all this..

About the congress; as I mentioned before it is defacto recognised since the last decade so it is just a matter of time, if I was an ermeni I wouldn't worry about it.

[Hosank]

" we will take some measurements against USA but our real target will be ermenistan becouse they are the masterminds behind all this" ...

lool, do the turks really believe this? no offence, but i think your government grossely overestimates armenia, anyways there is very little damage they can do that they arn't doing already.

btw, there are 40 000 armenian illegal workers, and most of them workin in eastern anatolia,(i think, though i may be wrong about that..)

but such a deportation would look pretty bad for turkey, considering that they themselves have some 2 million illegal workers in germany, and 'deportation' was the original "reason" for the genocide in the first place. it would really look bad for turkey to do the same thing, as a response to condemnation of the first one.

btw, there already was a commission with both turkish and armenian historians, as well as 3rd party ones, back in the 90s, which pretty much declared to the UN that there was a genocide, and the turkish historians were not able to prove the opposite, so they had to agree with the armenians. what happened later was that the turkish genocide recalled those historians, and declared the results null.

and, though the world knows that the events were genocide (i mean, the americans were there, and they saw, and in 1915 strongly condemned the genocide) they did not recognise it because of pressure (or should we say blackmale) from turkey who was aware of her important geopolitical position. even george bush refered to the events as genocide before he was elected. so i don't think it was 'defacto recongised' but definately it was known about by the world community. it was like an unspoken truth.

i think it will pass in congress, but this sort of situation has happened before (during clinton's era) where it didn't pass, so we cannot celebrate right away.

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Well I see your points but believe me nobody can say anything about deporting "illegal" immigrants. All civilised nations do this daily, Greece even leaves immigrants into open seas and sometimes let them drown, nobody cares...

And Turkiye blackmailing USA is a weak argument. Generally USA blackmails / pressures other states/ nations, not the other way around... And occosionally they bring democracy to nations that need it

BTW, there was this dig last year, Turkish, ermeni and French historians along with antropologists attended it. The dig site was supposed to be one of the mass graves of massacared ermeni.. It turned out to be a mass grave of Turks of some 500 bodies and nobody even pressed an article about it anywhere but here and France..

Nothing is decided yet by the world, and as I said, what matters is not what world decides but rather what ermeni and Turks decide.

[irlandahay]

BTW, there was this dig last year, Turkish, ermeni and French historians along with antropologists attended it. The dig site was supposed to be one of the mass graves of massacared ermeni.. It turned out to be a mass grave of Turks of some 500 bodies and nobody even pressed an article about it anywhere but here and France..

Nothing is decided yet by the world, and as I said, what matters is not what world decides but rather what ermeni and Turks decide.

ya I remember that. you mean that dig that was found by kurds? and then it turned out that they were 300 Assyrians and 200 armenians killed from a village nearby back in 1915? and then the military blocked access to it, and then they finally re-opened it and somehow it had changed completely?

here lemme refresh your memory!

"Mass Graves in Mardin
by Siamanto

In the fall of 2006, villagers in Mardin discovered a mass grave in a cave possibly carrying remnants of the Armenian Genocide victims. News spread and Professor David Gaunt of Sodertorn University College was interviewed as a scholar and expert on massacres in this region. Following his insinuation that the bones most probably belonged to Armenian victims of the 1915 genocide, authorities reportedly cordoned off the cave and finally, in December of 2006, the site was closed.

The next move came from Professor Yusuf Halacoglu, President of the Turkish Historical Institute, denying Gaunt's suggestions and insisting in a provocative manner that the bodies found were from Roman times and did not belong to Armenians. The authorities in the province of Mardin also launched their own investigation and concurred, as expected, with Professor Halacoglu.

Following somewhat abrasive negotiations in late 2006 - interrupted by Hrant Dink's assassination on January 19, 2007 by Turkish nationalists due to his views on Armenian issues - it was decided to initiate a joint investigation by interdisciplinary specialists in forensic medicine, archeology and anthropology, backed by historians knowledgeable about the region in question.

On April 24, 2006, the symbolic date for the Armenian Genocide, Professor Gaunt of Sodertorn accompanied by Yusuf Halacoglu arrived at the burial site, only to find a tampered grave full of mud where no bones were preserved to enable scientific research. As per Turkish modus operandi, authorities attributed it to weather conditions when in fact, they were deliberately unwilling to seal the historical grave site to prevent reliable scientific research for fear of exposing the truth. Allegedly, within a few months rain and mud had damaged the excavation site and the corpses therein, something that nature had been unable to do for a century.

Turkish authorities did, however, offer a shovel to Gaunt to recover some soil and leftover bones to conduct his research regarding the origins of bones. When the Professor protested the intentional cover up and the deliberate unprofessionalism in securing the grave site, he was blamed as unwilling to collaborate with Turkish authorities. The Swedish professor's disappointment was eventually brought to the point that he had to describe the whole theatrical production as an "expensive picnic".

This was, as a matter of fact, Turkey's generous offer for objective archeological investigation, later tempered by its fear that it would prove the truth of the Armenian Genocide. This fear possibly led the country and the Turkish Historical Society to tamper with the findings at the excavation site and blame the selective damage on acts of nature."

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Something tells me that your article comes from one of the extreme right web sites you visit a lot, generally we all give the source link of articles posted here.

And no the article is totally biased, the proffesor mentioned there had a press conference after the dig and admited that the site had nothing to do with the ermeni accusations but his beliefs in the genocide was still solid. He also thanked Mr. Halacoglu....

Halacoglu dared anyone else to dig anywhere they like and share the results actually. It is just people are not interested in science but politics. And this is a conratulation topic, I advise you to enjoy your victory while you still can...

BTW ask one of your buddies for a translation, here is what the Prof. Gaunt said in the press conference....

İsveç Tarihsel Adalet ve Uzlaşma Enstitüsü Başkanı Prof. David Gaunt, Türkiye'ye gelmeden önce yaptığı ön araştırma ve basından edindiği bilgiler üzerine gittikleri mezar ile iddia edilen mezarların bir olmadığını belirterek, "Edindiğim bilgiler üzerine gittiğimiz mezarlık aynı mezarlık olmadığı için bu mezarlıktan numune almaya gerek görmedik. Türk Tarih Kurumu bizimle çalışması halinde doğru bilgilere ulaşabileceğiz. Ancak sayın Halaçolğu, "Benim gösterdiğim araştırmacıları sorguluyorsa, daha baştan bir yanlışlık olduğunu söylemek istiyorum. Benim edindiğim fotoğraf üzerine de yaptığım araştırma sonucunda bu fotoğrafların 1915 yılında yapılan katliamı ortaya koyduğunu gösteriyor. Sadece Ermeniler ve Süryaniler üzerine bir araştırma içerisinde değilim. Her kim bir katliama maruz kalmışsa onlar üzerine de bir kitap yazmaya hazırım. Buradaki mezarlıklar her ne kadar Roma-Bizans dönemine ait ise de kitaplarda yer alan 1915 yılında Erzurum ve Diyarbakır'dan kafilelerle getirilen Ermenilerin öldürülerek bu mezarlıklara bırakıldığını düşünüyoruz" ifadelerini kullandı.

Yayın Tarihi : 23 Nisan 2007 Pazartesi

http://www.furkono.com/modules.php?name=Ne...le&sid=3215

BTW the site belongs to an Assyrian movement so before you jump to any conclusions about my source just take a deep breath and count to 10

[Hosank]

irlandahye, i would like a source for your post.
arrow, and illegal alien is not an immigrant till his feet touch the soul of the country. trust me there is alot of debate over illegal aliens, especially in the US and so on.

all this to say that no matter what, it will still not look good for turkey to start deporting armenian illegals (off their ancestral land btw.) while they have 4 million nationals in germany, 2 million of which are illegal.

what the US does is not in question here, but rather what turkey does.

aanyways, this topic is staring to look more like a sports game.