|
  |
 THE GREEK HOLOCAUST BY THE TURKS |
|
|
|
|
 09/08/05 11:59 AM
|
Member
Group: MEIC Members/Donors
Posts: 6,042
Joined: 03/22/05 02:20 PM
From: NYC, USA
Member No.: 17
|
THE GREEK HOLOCAUST OF THRACE, ASIA MINOR AND PONTOS
What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia, unto Ephesus and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira and unto Sardis and unto Philadelphia and unto Laodicea. (Apoc. I11).
The seven churches, the seven torches of light of the Greek-Christian civilization are no longer burning. The land of Asia Minor, an area where for 3000 years Greek civilization flourished has almost disappeared.
The Turks invaded Asia Minor in two waves: The Seljuks were first at the end of the 11th century and the Ottomans came later, at the beginning of the l3th century.
Using indiscriminately force, murder, genocide, and Turcification they managed to hold on to a foreign land expelling or exterminating its natural residents: Greeks, Armenians, Kurds, and Arabs.
In the 8th century, the Oguz Turks, a semi-savage nomadic people moved westward from their homeland in Mongolia, and settled in what is today West Turkestan.
The Seljuks, a sect of the Oguz Turks, moved further in the direction of Persia and today's Iraq, where they served as mercenaries for the caliphs of Baghdad.
From this encounter with the advanced Persian and Arab civilizations, they enriched their poor vocabulary, adopted the Arabic script and became Muslims retaining simultaneously their warring nomad characteristics.
Their king, Alp Arslan (1063-1072), unified the various Seljuk factions, invaded Armenia, and sacked its capital of Ani in 1064. After that he and his armies invaded Byzantium and following the critical battle at Manzikert (1071) where the Byzantines were defeated, the Seljuks occupied a large part of the Asia Minor provinces of Byzantium. Previous to the invasion, there was not a single Turk living in these provinces.
In this foreign, for the Turks land there were thus established a number of Seljuk controlled emirates.
After a short period of time the Byzantines and the Crusaders dissolved nearly all of these emirates, except one whose capital was Iconium. This had been named as the Sultanate of Roum in other words the land of the Romans, as was the official title of the Greek Byzantine Empire, which was a continuation and succession of the Eastern Roman Empire.
The raids by Genghis Khan's (1167-1227) Mongols forced another Turkish tribe, led by Suleyman-Shah, to abandon Turkistan and to head towards the west. This group tried to settle in Eastern Asia Minor, but the Armenians and Kurds ousted them. In an attempt to cross the Euphrates river, their leader was drowned and buried there, which ever since has been known as <<Turk-mezari>>, or the <<tomb of the Turk>> A title which is indicative of how alien the Turks were in these areas.
The tribe then moved toward the Sultanate of Roum where it settled often assuming the role of border-guards. Suleyman's grandson, Osman, (1259-1326), took over the title of Sultan from the Seljuks and he gave his name to the Turkish people: The Ottomans.
The leaders of the Osmanlis quickly realized that since they comprised a minority of conquerors it would be difficult for them to control the occupied lands, and simultaneously to pursue further conquests without taking certain <<special measures>>.
Thus, they decided to adopt and apply harsh methods previously unknown to the whole world. Methods, which were never repeated again by another nation on earth. The primary measures taken were as follows:
They declared their state a warrior or <<Gazi>> state. In other words, a state that was bound to declare holy war (Jihad) against the non-believers. This way, they were able to bring together all kinds of adventurers, who were willing to fight either for ideological reasons, or for just the spoils of the war.
They adopted the inhumane measure of forcibly recruiting young Christian children. In other words, they forcibly took male children of the enslaved Christian families (mainly Greeks. and later also Armenians Bulgarians, Albanians and Serbs), and brought them up in special camps They conditioned them to become fanatic Turks and relentless killers to their own people. These children would grow up to believe that their father was the Sultan and that if they were to die in battle they would go to heaven. Thus, because of this New Army, or Janissaries, (Yeni-ceri in Turkish) the Turks continued to pursue their conquests.
They slaughtered systematically millions of Asia Minor's inhabitants, in order to change the ethnic character of the land. It has been estimated that during the seven centuries of Turkish presence in Asia Minor several millions of Greeks, at least two-three million Armenians and hundreds of thousands of Kurds, Syrians, but also Serbs, and Bulgarians in Europe, were systematically massacred. In the 20th century alone, it has been estimated that approximately 1,5 million Armenians and more than 1 million Greeks were exterminated.
In this manner, the Turks managed to hold on to Asia Minor, a foreign land for them, where Greek civilizations had flourished for 2.000 years before the appearance of the Turks.
The Turks just destroyed these civilizations and unfortunately did not even try to take advantage of its accomplishments.
In two previous occasions the Greek people contributed in civilizing their conquerors, as was the case with the Romans and the Franks. One must possess a cultural identity to be able to absorb what is creative and good from other civilizations. Unfortunately, the conquering Turks lacked such an identity.
The Turks also failed to administer their subject peoples within the Ottoman Empire. There were no <<laws>> in the civilized sense of the word. The Sultan's word was the law in the capital and arbitrary rule of local representatives was the law in the provinces. The property, honor, and life of the conquered were completely at the mercy of the occasional Turkish official.
The only bond that kept the multiethnic empire together was the crude use of force-ultimately the butchery-of the rulers. Slaughter was the rule without concern for innocence or guilt.
Under these conditions the Turkish administration was truly detestable to all the subject people who suffered and patiently waited for each opportunity to throw off the Ottoman yoke.
The Turks failed to assimilate the various nationalities within their empire. They could not also administer them efficiently, not even control the economy because commerce and industry was left in the hands of the Greeks, Armenians and Jews, while the Turks kept busy with governing and simultaneously exploiting the profits while terrorizing the inhabitants.
For the enslaved people to be finally liberated from their rulers there took place a series of revolutions, which led to the establishment of independent states. In 1908 the Young Turk revolution forced the Sultan to grant a constitution to the remnants of the Ottoman Empire.
In spite of the apparent liberalism of the formally bourgeois revolution, which was spearheaded by the military without the participation of the people, there continued to develop additional centrifugal tendencies as they did in the times of the Sultan's despotism. For those nations still within the Empire whose fellow nationals had established independent states, e. g. the Greeks- it was natural for them to seek union with their free compatriots. Those peoples still within the Empire that had not attained separate statehood, e.g. the Armenians, and the Kurds, focused all their energies towards the attainment of self-determination and the establishment of autonomous national homelands.
The Young Turks sought to rid themselves of troublesome non-Turkish ethnic groups so that they could build a homogeneous Turkish state and so they could avoid further mutilation of Turkish controlled territory in areas where non-Turks were in the majority, such as Eastern Thrace,
Western Asia Minor and Pontos, where the Greeks were in the majority, Eastern Asia Minor where the Armenians were in the majority and, Southeastern Asia Minor where the Kurds were in the majority.
Thus, the supposedly liberal and constitutionally oriented Young Turks returned to the usual Sultanic abrasiveness and brutality, which now became much more organized and systematic and assumed genocidal proportions.
The massacres were premeditated: It was decided that <<the Ottomanisation of all Turkish citizens, which never succeeded through persuasion, had to be done by the force of arms>>,
This was stated in the L o n d o n T i m e s on the 3rd of October 1911 summarizing the proceedings of the Council of Union and Progress (The Young Turks).
At first, the persecutions took place against the Greeks, made under the pretext of the Balkan Wars (1912-1913). Persecution took the form of lootings, expulsions and murders. After the wars, persecution continued even more intensively, to the point where on the 25 of May 1914 the Ecumenical Patriarchate was forced to declare that the Orthodox Church was <<under attack>>.
The Patriarchate, further, in a show of protest and mourning, suspended the activities of Greek churches and Greek schools throughout Turkey.
After the declaration of World War I, the Turks found the perfect opportunity to organize more effectively the massacres against ethnic minorities, so that they could finally transform their empire into a homogeneous nation-state.
Prominent officers of the Young Turks movement, while serving as members of the government, organized the expulsion of the inhabitants as well as the lootings and massacres that were perpetrated against them. Specifically, Talaat Pasha, minister of the interior, was prominent as the mastermind of the pogroms. However, the entire Turkish state administration participated in the organization and the execution of the extermination program.
They began with the genocide of the Armenians, who did not possess a state, which would rush to their aid and followed it up with mass expulsions and massacres of the Greeks. The victims of this period are over 2.5 million people of which 1.5 million were Armenians. In the chronological Index one can see detailed figures regarding the persecution of the Greeks of Asia Minor, Thrace and Pontos.
After the end of World War I, the Allies recognized that the Turkish government could not protect the property, honor, and life of the Greeks in the Ottoman Empire.
They assigned to Greece the responsibility to administer Eastern Thrace and the Smyrna district. This arrangement was contained in the Treaty of Sevres. Simultaneously, there was established a separate and independent Pontian state.
In 1920, Alexander Millerand, president of the Supreme Allied Council stated: <<The Turkish government not only failed in its duty to protect its non-Turkish citizens from the looting, violence and murders, but there are many indications that the Turkish government itself was responsible for directing and organizing the most cruel attacks against the populations, which it was supposed to protect. For these reasons, the Allied powers have decided to liberate from the Turkish yoke all the lands where the majority of the people were non-Turks>>.
The Turkish government signed the Treaty of Sevres but Mustafa Kemal refused to recognize it.
After 40 long months of war, during which Kemal's forces secured considerable foreign assistance, the Greek military front in Anatolia collapsed.
The Turks reoccupied Asia Minor and entered Smyrna on September 8, 1922. In Smyrna, in the meantime, there was an influx of refugees from various parts of Asia Minor. And the conquering Turks set the city on fire and unleashed the last phase of the genocide against the Greeks and Armenians.
These were moments of unbelievable horror. The pier turned red by the blood of the victims. The bishop of Smyrna Chrysostomos was publicly ridiculed and then slaughtered. Events were too horrible to even describe. The American Consul in Smyrna, George Horton, gives a detailed and objective picture of the chilling Turkish crimes in his book T h e B l i g h t o f A s i a (Indianapolis: Bobb and Merryl, 1925).
The Treaty of Lausanne ended the Greek-Turkish war and imposed the unjust and mandatory exchange of 300,000 Turks from Greece for the 1,400,000 Greeks that survived the holocaust.
The Greek refugees of Asia Minor, without being consulted had to give up their ancestral homes to the Turks, after almost 4,000 years of glorious and productive history.
Through the unjust actions of massacre and persecution of Greeks and Armenians, the contemporary Turkish state was thus created. It was a state founded on crime, the state about which French prime minister George Clemanceau said on the 25th of June, 1919: <<We do not find even one example in Europe, Asia, or Africa, where the imposition of Turkish sovereignty had not been followed by a decline in material prosperity, and by the impoverishment of its culture. Also there does not exist one example where liberation from Turkish control was not followed by the advancement of material prosperity and an improvement of the cultural level. Whether dealing with Christians or Muslims, the Turk has managed to bring destruction wherever he conquered. The Turk has never been able to develop in peace that which he won through conquest>>.
On the 26th of November 1979, the New York Times wrote quite characteristically: <<According to the most recent statistics, the Christian population in Turkey was diminished from (4.500.000) at the beginning of this century to just about 150,000. Of those, the Greeks are no more than 7,000 yet, in 1923 they were as many as 1, 2 million>> (After the massacres of many hundreds of thousands).
In the pages, which follow you, will find photographs of the cultural presence of Greeks in Asia Minor and irrefutable photographic evidence of a small sample of the Turkish atrocities, which managed to destroy this splendid civilization and to persecute millions of people.
Even though human justice has not yet punished the Turks, we believe that there is a Divine Justice to which the Turks will sooner or later be answerable. http://www.unitedhumanrights.org/Turkish.php
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
09/10/05 02:06 PM
|
Member
Group: MEIC Conversion Group
Posts: 4,589
Joined: 04/23/05 04:39 PM
Member No.: 62
|
I will make a contribution to the new section for you, chase, one that, I hope, is especially appropriate since it is beginning in the month of September:
BLACK SEPTEMBER
HELLENIC GENOCIDE
www.greece.org/themis/macedonia
The month of September brings with it the end of summer, the beginning of a new year on the Orthodox calendar, and the anniversaries of dates that have ravaged Hellenic civilization and culture. On September 14, we commemorate the Hellenic Genocide. We remember once again the Hellions of Asia Minor who were systematically murdered by the governments of the Young Turks and Mustafa Kemal Pasha.
The destruction of Asia Minor Hellenism began in 1071 when the Byzantine armies were defeated by the Seljuk Turks. In this historical event lies the origin of the Hellenic Holocaust which continues up to the present day. In 1453, Constantinopoulis fell to the Turks. The great, honorable, and brave Constantinos Palaiologos led 5,000 brave Greek soldiers against 80,000 Ottoman Turkish soldiers. The fall of Constantinopoulis, and the fall of the Empire of Trebizond eight years later extended the Hellenic holocaust to all Hellenic regions.
The Ottoman Empire brought with it massacres, torture, slavery, the kidnapping of boys for the Janissaries, the enslavement of women into the harems, and intolerable political and economic pressure that resulted in the further decimation of Hellenism. For even when Hellenes were not massacred, the destruction of Hellenism occurred with the loss of national identity. Conversions to Islam and Turkification contributed to the nightmare of the loss of independence and national sovereignty.
In May 1919, the armies of a a free and independent Greece entered the glorious and long suffering city of Smyrna. For a brief time it appeared that the extermination of the Hellenic race had ceased. During the First World War, the Young Turks began to murder the Hellenic populations in Asia Minor, along with the Armenians and the Assyrians.
Ultimately, Mustafa Kemal Pasha became an instrument of western imperialism and as such Turkish racism earned the unconditional assistance of the United States, Great Britain, France, and Italy. The murderous psychopath Mustafa Kemal was aided by the western powers while the Greek Army in Asia Minor was cut off by an embargo imposed by the western powers. In September 1922, beautiful Smyrna was conquered by the Kemalists and burned. Over 100,000 Greeks and 30,000 Armenians were slaughtered.
Special mention must be made of Metropolitan Chrysostom of Smyrna. This brave and noble Greek Orthodox Cleric supported the Greek liberators in 1919, and was a voice for the aspirations of a nation that had been enslaved, humiliated, massacred, and denigrated for centuries. When the news broke that the Kemalist aggressors would retake Smyrna, it became apparent that the Greeks and the Armenians would not survive.
Metropolitan Chrysostom was offered refuge by the French Consulate. This Saint refused the offer of safety and chose to share the fate of his flock. Metropolitan Chrysostom was handed over to a fanatical Muslim mob by the crazed and sadistic Kemalist General Noureddin Pasha. He was humiliated by having his beard cut off, and then his eyes, ears, nose, and hands were cut off. Metropolitan Chyrsostom was canonized as a Saint by the Orthodox Church of Greece in 1992. (He is very much AXIOS and deserves to be remembered and prayed for).
When the Kemalist-Young Turks murder machines ceased-over 1,500,000 Armenians, 1,000,000 Greeks, and 800,000 Assyrians had lost their lives. The decimation of Hellenism continued when the west supported Kemal's plan to ethnically cleanse Asia Minor and Eastern Thraki of well over 1,000,000 Hellenes. In this day and age, we are inundated with stories of ethnic cleansing throughout the world, but there is still no recognition of the horrors that have been perpetrated against Hellenism.
Over 1,000,000 Hellenes were forced to abandon the land and homes where their ancestors and descendants had lived for over 3,000 years. This ethnic cleansing and Genocide was supported by the "civilized" powers in the west and legitimized by the Treaty of Lausanne. Today the world commemorates Aushwitz and the crimes of Stalin, but there are no memorials for the dead of Smyrna and Pontus in those ancient Hellenic lands.
On September 6, 1955 crimes against humanity took place in a country that was a member of the NATO alliance. The Turkish government of Adnan Menderes (of the so called "democratic" party) incited terrorism against the Hellenes of Constantinopoulis and Imbros. First, the Turks bombed their own consulate in Thessaloniki and then blamed the Greeks. Then they organized the fanatics, the criminals, and the parasites, and encouraged them to attack the Greek population, the Churches, homes, and businesses.
In Smyrna, Greek Army officers serving with NATO were assaulted and their wives violated. Throughout these terrorist attacks, the police did not interfere. On September 6 we remember the end of Hellenism in Constantinopoulis and Imbros. In the 1960's, the Turkish authorities proceeded to finish the job by ethnically cleansing the last remnants of Hellenism.
During these attacks in Constantinopoulis, Imbros, and Smyrna, there were absolutely no condemnations, protests, or sanctions coming from Washington (that universal protector of "human rights" and "democracy"). Following the September 6 pogroms, Secretary of State John Foster Dulles wrote identical letters to Greek Prime Minister Alexander Papagos and Turkish Prime Minister Adnan Menderes urging the "allies" to consider NATO. There was no sympathy for Greece expressed, nor was there any condemnation of Turkey's blatant aggression.
Hellenism is today being eradicated in Cyprus. Over 200,000 Greeks have been ethnically cleansed in the occupied territories. In 1996, Turkish death squads murdered Cypriots Tasos Isaac and Solomos Solomou. As in Asia Minor in 1922, and Constantinopoulis in 1955, there is not a single protest emanating from the "civilized powers."
Black September, a month to commemorate and recall our losses, and to reevaluate where Hellenism stands today in Cyprus, Macedonia, the Aegean Sea, and Northern Epirus. The losses of Hellenism have been numerous in terms of lives lost, and in terms of territory that has been conquered. Let us remember, commemorate, and mourn all that has been lost in Asia Minor and Constantinopoulis. Remember Smyrna and Pontus, and the victims of the Hellenic Genocide.
Documentation of the Hellenic Genocide
----------------------------------------------------------
Let us remember and honor the memories of those who worked to protect Hellenes, Armenians, and Assyrians from the Turkish aggressors. Let us honor prominent American officials such as George Horton and Henry Morgenthau who worked tirelessly to assist the refugees that fled from Asia Minor. Let us honor them also because their important work remains alive in their important writings and texts. George Horton documented the Hellenic Genocide in "The Blight of Asia", and Henry Morgenthau documented the ethnic cleansing of Hellenes in his important, "I was sent to Athens".
Further documentation and texts on the Hellenic Genocide include Edward Hale Bierstadt's "The Great Betrayal" which was published in 1924, and which Turkish supporters in America worked to discredit. This is a powerful and moving document describing the agony of Asia Minor Hellenism. Journalist Edward Herbert Gibbons has left behind accounts of Turkish Genocide against Hellenism in his 1920 biography of Prime Minister Venizelos.
The American Hellenic Society, an early version of the Greek lobby in America has left behind an important document, "Persecution of the Greeks in Turkey" which describes in great detail the atrocities of the Greeks in Asia Minor during the First World War. Specific atrocities, statistics of the dead in various regions, numbers of victims deported and ethnically cleansed, and the names of Hellenic villages where the Turkish exterminations took place during the First World War are all recounted here.
The American Hellenic Society has also left behind a document submitted by Prime Minister Venizelos, "Greece Before the Peace Congress of 1919", which was submitted to the victorious powers of the First World War. The Prime Minister makes frequent references to the exterminations of Greeks and Armenians in the case he put forward for the rights of Greece in Asia Minor and Constantinopoulis.
Marjorie Housepian Dobkin's, "Smyrna 1922 the Destruction of a City" is a briliantly researched account of the events that led to the final extermination of Asia Minor Hellenism. Thea Halo's "Not Even my Name" is a memoir recalling the Genocide that affected Hellenism in Pontus.
"The Miracle" by Leonidas Koumakis is an invaluable contribution to the documentation of the destruction of Hellenism in Constantinopoulis and Asia Minor. The author recounts the conspiracy against Hellenism during the 1950's and 1960's, and describes the ethnic cleansing of Hellenes by the Turkish state. "The Crucifixion of Christianity" by Dimitrios Kaloumenos is a recounting of the September 1955 pogroms in Constantinopoulis and contains numerous photographs of the destruction that serve as an indictment against the Turkish state.
"In 1992, Helsinki Watch published, "Denying Human Rights and Ethnic Identity, The Greeks of Turkey". The document refers to specific harassment against the Greeks of Constantinopoulis, and Imbros and Tenedos". The document is further evidence of the ethnic cleansing of Hellenism by the Turkish authorities.
Up to our own day, Hellenism remains under assault. The State Department's "Country Reports on Human Rights" has documented the terrorist bombings against the Ecumenical Patriarchate, and the discriminatory closing of the Halki Seminary.
Cypriot Hellenism suffers under the Turks today. The plight of the Cypriots is recounted in the Documentary film, "Attila 74 the Rape of Cyprus" by film director Michael Cacoyannis. Furthermore, the destruction of Cypriot culture is described in the text, "The Occupied Churches of Cyprus" by a Greek Cypriot priest, Rev. D. Demosthenous.
You can find most of the above books at HEC bookstore www.greece.org
Let us remember the agony of Hellenism.
HEC-Hellenic Electronic Center
www.greece.org
http://www.diamandagalas.com/defixiones/Bl...ckSeptember.htm
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
09/10/05 06:59 PM
|
Member
Group: MEIC Members/Donors
Posts: 6,042
Joined: 03/22/05 02:20 PM
From: NYC, USA
Member No.: 17
|
The Hellenic Genocide
"The Armenians are not the only subject people in Turkey which have suffered from this policy of making Turkey exclusively the country of the Turks. The story which I have told about the Armenians I could also tell with certain modifications about the Greeks and the Syrians. Indeed the Greeks were the first victims of this nationalizing idea."
Ambassador Morgenthau's Story
CHAPTER XXIV
Henry Morgenthau - 1918
The Hellenic Genocide was the systematic torture, massacre and ethnic cleansing of several millions Hellenes (Greeks) perpetrated by the Turks in Asia Minor, Constantinople (now called Istanbul by the Turks), Eastern Thrace, Imvros, Tenedos, Macedonia, Cappadocia and Pontos.
Most of the victims were massacred between 1895 (much earlier than the World War I) and 1955 (much after the World War II). The present estimate is that some 2.000.000 Greek children, men and women of all ages were killed during that period.
In the same places and often at the same time, the Turks tortured and massacred millions of Armenians and Assyrians of all ages. The fact that the three nations were victims of the same extermination policy is another proof of each of the three Genocides. It was not a "war", it was not a "revolt". It was a planned effort of extermination. It was an effort to create a " Turkey for the Turks", as the Turkish leaders called it, in the lands of the Armenians, Assyrians and Greeks still under Turkish occupation.
The persecution of the Kurds, began as soon as most of the Armenians, Assyrians and Greeks, had been exterminated. The Kurds were misled into thinking that by helping the Turks to exterminat the "infidels", as the they referred to the Armenians, Assyrians and Greeks, they would have a land of their own. The Kurds did help the Turks but only to become the next victims of the plan to create a "Turkey for the Turks". The persecution of the Kurds was a natural consequence.
In a way, the Hellenic Genocide still didn't end, as its few survivors are persecuted right now in all territories ruled by the Turks, especially in Constantinople and Imvros. For instance, in Imvros, in 1999, a six years old Greek boy was burned alive by the Turks. The Orthodox Patriarchate, located in Constantinople, which has a similar meaning as the Vatican, is attacked often. The rights of the few survivors of the Hellenic Genocide are shamefully denied.
The Treaty of Lausanne is continually disrespected. Even the frequent invasions by Turkey of the airspace and the territorial sea of Greece (which amount to hundreds every year), can be considered reflexes of its extermination policy. If for the Turkish rulers, the Greeks don't have the right to live, they don't have any rights."
http://www.hellenicgenocide.org/quotes/
Thanks HBK for that excellent account. The Island of Chios. We had a congressman whose ancestors emigrated from there at the time of their massacre. A beautiful island with a thriving port and people with a phenomenol sense of business. A very rich island. The massacre there was a text-book of what was to come just a century later.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
09/25/05 03:30 PM
|
Member
Group: MEIC Members/Donors
Posts: 8,642
Joined: 03/22/05 04:39 PM
From: England
Member No.: 21
|
Looks like the Macedonians were not Greeks, nor spoke 'Greek'
http://www.historyofmacedonia.org/ConciseM...sNotGreeks.html
"
"Why Macedonia and the Macedonians had Never been Greek?
1. The ancient Macedonians were a distinct nation, separate from their neighbors, the ancient Greeks, Illyrians, and Thracians. The ancient Greek and Roman historians tell us that the Macedonians spoke a separate Macedonian language and had their own customs, culture, and traditions. Archeological discoveries confirm that the material culture of the Macedonians also defer greatly from all their neighbors, and it is by far more superior in artistry (gold, paintings, weapons, mosaics) then anything found in contemporary Greece, Illyria, and Thrace. The texts of the ancient writers distinguish the Macedonians from the ancient Greeks, just like they distinguish the Romans and the Carthaginians. Yet, like the other non-Greeks, Carthaginians, Romans, Illyrians, and Thracians, the Macedonian high society also used the Greek language along with Macedonian. Greek was spoken by the nobility of many different ancient nations, just like French was spoken in the 19th century (at the German and Russian courts for example). Unfortunately there are only about 150 glosses that have survived of the ancient Macedonian language (most of them with no relation whatsoever with ancient Greek), and like ancient Carthaginian, Illyrian, and Thracian, it can not be reconstructed. There is no doubt nevertheless that the Illyrains, Thracians, and Macedonians were non-Greeks, or in the words of the ancient Greeks "barbarians" which literally means people who spoke other non-Greek languages.
============
"Hellenes " appear to have been a 19th Century term.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
09/25/05 08:06 PM
|
Member
Group: Root Admin
Posts: 10,158
Joined: 03/22/05 11:30 AM
From: US
Member No.: 16
|
AA-- to try and paint the Kurds as the muscle behind the genocide is a dirty trick. The Turks were more than able to do it themselves. As stated in the memoir below -- Kurds helped save the Armenians.
Days of Tragedy in Armenia: Personal Experiences in Harpoot 1915-1917.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DAYS OF TRAGEDY IN ARMENIA:
Personal Experiences in Harpoot 1915-1917.
By Henry Riggs
Gomidas Institute. 240 pp. $25
ISBN 1-884630-01-4
MISSIONARY'S 1918 MEMOIR DEPICTS GENOCIDE IN KHARPERT
Ann Arbor, Mich.-The American missionary Henry Riggs wrote a vivid account of the Armenian Genocide in Kharpert (Harpoot). Completed in 1918, Rev. Riggs's memoir, DAYS OF TRAGEDY IN ARMENIA: PERSONAL EXPERIENCES IN HARPOOT, 1915-1917, has now been published by the Gomidas Institute.
"DAYS OF TRAGEDY IN ARMENIA is probably the most detailed local history of the Armenian Genocide written in the English language," said the historian Ara Sarafian, who wrote the introduction to the volume. Rev. Riggs's narrative is the first in the Gomidas Institute's Armenian Genocide Documentation Series, of which Sarafian is general editor.
"This is the story of an engaged observer," Sarafian added. "Rev. Riggs was born in the Ottoman Empire. He spoke Turkish, Armenian, and English. His narrative is based on his personal observations and his conversations with Armenian, Kurdish, and Turkish friends and neighbors, Ottoman officials, other Americans, and foreign nationals. It really is an amazing account."
DEFIANT KURDS
Rev. Riggs pays close attention to the Kurdish population of the Dersim region, adjacent to Harpoot. Noting that the relationship of Kurdish tribes in this region with the Ottoman government had long been tenuous, he reports that in the spring of 1916 a Kurdish uprising took place. After suppressing the rebellion, the government began an abortive effort to deport Kurds from the region.
Riggs credits the Dersim Kurds with saving tens of thousands of Armenians by providing them with safe passage to Russia. He writes:
"It was during this period that the hunted Armenians began to flee into the Dersim. To those who knew of the depredations of the Dersim Kurds in the massacres of 1895, this sounds like a strange situation, for then the Kurds were the persecutors of the Armenians. That was, however, as it were, strictly a matter of business, as the Kurds in 1895 were invited to come and plunder the Armenians, and the killing at that time was merely incidental to getting the loot, which forms so large a part of a well-regulated Kurd's income. In 1915, however, there was no loot to be had, for the government took care of that. And when it came to dealing with a defenseless Armenian fugitive, the instinct of the noble savage is to save rather than wantonly to destroy this neighbor against whom he has no grudge" (p. 111).
http://www.cilicia.com/armo7d.html
A little plunder is one thing. Genocide and ethnic cleansing quite another.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
09/25/05 10:48 PM
|
Member
Group: MEIC Conversion Group
Posts: 686
Joined: 03/22/05 03:29 PM
From: Chi-'Burb
Member No.: 19
|
Concheet, no offense, but how STUPID can you be, really?
What do you mean, "try and paint"? They are already of that color that you think I am "painting"! For some ODD reason, GOD HELP YOU, you anti Assyrian PIECE OF TRASH, may God NOT have mercy on your DECREPID soul, but, YOU PANDER to Kurds and IGNORE our CRIES.
But, its not just our cries. I post that of the Shabak, Yezidi and TURKMEN as well, and WHERE ARE YOU TO RESPOND THEN? OBVIOUSLY, you are MORE THAN AWARE of Anvil's posts, but you turn a BLIND EYE the ones that exposes Kurds and or shows our atrocities. YOU, as a PERSON, SINGULAR, are T-R-A-S-H. You point out SUCH A STUPID example, so REMEDIAL AND ELEMENTARY, I mean just the very thought that you ATTEMPTED this response was downright PATHETIC. WE KNOW how you H-A-T-E (thats right, hate) the PALESTINIANS, BUT I BET , infact, I KNOW, MANY Palestinians are GOOD people, and I BET there are hundreds of times MORE STORIES of this likeness. WE NEVER HAVE SAID EVERY SINGLE KURD is evil, MOST ARE. Most are, because they know who the indigenous people are, yet they continue the atrocities towards us, AND, the people that MATTER, instigate these things, thus, the (few) civilians who are "nice" just flat out, dont show and dont matter.
ITS ALMOST LIKE BRAGGING ABOUT "NOT BEING A CRIMINAL", its flat out STUPID. Coming from the source, I am not surprised as you can ONLY OUTPUT STUPIDITY. Pander to Kurds, and believe me, KARMA won't be kind. Thats KARMA, look into it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
09/26/05 07:35 AM
|
Member
Group: Root Admin
Posts: 10,158
Joined: 03/22/05 11:30 AM
From: US
Member No.: 16
|
AA
You can call it what you like, but to claim that the Kurds were the "muscle behind the genocide" is patently unfair. That absolves the Turks from any serious responsibility.
And frankly, if you were one of the thousands of Armenians whose lives were saved by the Kurds, perhaps you would not be so dismissive of their efforts.
Diri has not tried to pretend that some Kurds were indeed involved, but the Kurds today have apologized and extended their hand in friendship and brotherhood to the Armenians.
I am not terribly aware of the struggle of the Assyrians so I have stayed out of most discussions about them.
I can have no truck with a statement like this :
QUOTE . WE NEVER HAVE SAID EVERY SINGLE KURD is evil, MOST ARE. Most are, because they know who the indigenous people are, yet they continue the atrocities towards us...
Indigenous or not, no people should be inflicting 'atrocities' on another, but I have not been reading about the Kurds inflicting 'atrocities' on the Assyrians. Perhaps it is a major fiction like ZIONISM=NACISM and the IDF are NAZIS that you people are so fond of perpetrating. I imagine it is so...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
09/26/05 08:08 PM
|
Member
Group: MEIC Conversion Group
Posts: 686
Joined: 03/22/05 03:29 PM
From: Chi-'Burb
Member No.: 19
|
QUOTE(concheet) AA
.
I am not terribly aware of the struggle of the Assyrians so I have stayed out of most discussions about them.
but I have not been reading about the Kurds inflicting 'atrocities' on the Assyrians. ..
SO NOW, you are stuck where you are, right? You are COMFORTABLE in your position, so now you will refuse to learn anything new, even if it is the truth that will shed NEW LIGHT to what you had previously thought was the truth...
Tell me, Connie, how did you become "AWARE" of the CURDs and about them? WAS INFO SHOVED DOWN YOUR THROAT? Were you held at GUN POINT or something? I dont buy your PATHETIC excuse, what do I look like to you? YOU LEARN WHAT YOU WANT TO LEARN, certainly, you have not been short of information thats been presented here, but YOU CHOOSE to turn a blind eye, for whatever reason, then at the same time, PANDER to Curds UNCONDITIOINALLY, FOR WHATEVER REASON.
I even posted a VIDEO LINK, where your LAZY ASS doesnt even have to read, you can WATCH the British parliament or house of Lords, EXPOSE the Curds of their crimes and ADDRESS (finally) the Assyrian issue.
No, there is no absolving whatsoever, I ALWAYS say they were a TAG TEAM...the IDEOLOGY of the Turks is JUST AS BAD as the muscle of the Curds..most certainly, Turks murdered as well, no one is implying that they didnt..but due to our LOCATION, it was the CURDS who had the most ability to do what they did.
What the Turks did to us, I CAN TELL YOU. They "drafted" our ABLE BODIED YOUNG men into their army (by force, of course) then, it was easy for them to round up and kill them. They disarmed them and killed them. Pretty freaking cowardly HUH? THEN, CURDS "FINISHED" their dirty work by KILLING THE WOMEN AND CHILDREN, FREAKING CIVLIANS. So there you have it, a tag team OF HELL to 'purify" Turkey from Christians and "THREATS" such as Assyrians and Armenians who ALWAYS LONGED for independence and autonomy. Some turks have the nerve to say that "they couldnt differentiate between Assyrians and Armenians" but that is crap because they are well aware of our history and who we are, what our language and customs are. IT is true that we are pretty close with the Armenian community, because we are Christians and we get along, so its natural to have that relationship in the middle of HELL.
So there you have it, by no means am I blaming only Curds, Turks are the perps and instigators, and very much to blame as well. BUT, so are Curds. That is all.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
09/26/05 08:24 PM
|
Member
Group: Root Admin
Posts: 10,158
Joined: 03/22/05 11:30 AM
From: US
Member No.: 16
|
Look, sh!t happens so you can get off your damned high horse with me! I am a Jew and lost my immediate family to a genocide and Jews have had genocides virtually throughout recorded history.
We wouldn't have a friend in the world today if we didn't learn to accept apologies and not hold peoples' children or ancestors responsible for what they did yesterday. What are they doing now? I am sure that some Kurds did some bad things. Some Jews have done some bad things. Some Germans did bad, Japanese did bad, Russians, Chinese, Mexicans etc.
Why in the 20th century alone nearly 170 million people probably have been murdered by governments. We cannot afford to dwell in the past.
Check out this site:
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/welcome.html
Dedicated to those who are not yet living in freedom, who suffer repression, regime-made famine, torture, gulags, and fear for their lives and those of their loved ones; and thanks to the internet, have reached this home page.
We don't have an eternity to get it right.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
09/26/05 08:54 PM
|
Member
Group: MEIC Conversion Group
Posts: 686
Joined: 03/22/05 03:29 PM
From: Chi-'Burb
Member No.: 19
|
I appreciate the link and I will look into as I have already started, I am ALWAYS interesting in these kinds of things and subjects...We are by NO MEANS the ONLY ones that suffer...
NOW, what you say is conflicting. How can you attack TURKEY CONSTANTLY but NOT attack Kurds? THEY STILL commit crimes on us TO THIS DAY. THEY STEAL OUR HOMES, and DRIVE US OUT OUR LAND BY INTIMIDATION, I am talking RECENT times recent as 15 years (FIRSTHAND EXPERIENCE, my grandma's house which I posted the story here on the forum) and the RECENT crime wherer the CURDS PREVENTED the ballot boxes from arriving to NINEVEH, THE HEART AND SOUL OF ASSYRIA AND ASSYRIANS!!! THEY CASTRATED our PEOPLE in the homeland to vote but did you hear about it? Only from me you would, why would AMERICANS, YOUR SOURCE FOR NEWS, EXPOSE themselves for their SHORTCOMINGS? The BRITISH Parliament, House of Lords video which I presented, ADDRESSES THAT ISSUE, which you turned a blind eye on, again.
You tell me one thing, but you still have a problem with Arabs and Palestinians and you support CURDS. THIS IS WHERE I COME IN AND YELL FOUL. HYPOCRISY, DOUBLE STANDARDS, and I dont stand for that 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
09/26/05 09:30 PM
|
Member
Group: MEIC Conversion Group
Posts: 686
Joined: 03/22/05 03:29 PM
From: Chi-'Burb
Member No.: 19
|
You don't have to answer, but I know you will read it..
The fact that Kurds have been abused by Turkey and Saddamned, believe me, and Curds themselves will tell you, WE HAVE HAD IT WORSE.
The ONLY THING that may be different, is that they are more "rebellioius" hence they get "punished" more often, and I am referring to being punished at the hands of the monstrous Turk and Iraq baath government.
But, we one up them (not that we are proud by any means) in MANY respects, that goes ignored. For example , when Saddamned was in charge, HE DENIED THE VERY EXISTENCE OF ASSYRIA AND ASSYRIANS. In the CENSUS that they held, we must register as KURDS OR ARABS so guess what? "AT LEAST" Kurds were allowed to hang on to their nationality, but we were DENIED. Do you know WHY WE are denied? BECAUSE PEOPLE FEAR LEGITIMACY. No matter HOW WEAK they may be, LEGITIMACY is something people fear and when you are a crook, you want to stifle it. THIS IS WHAT THE KURDS DO NOW, as the BATON OF SADDAMNED HAS BEEN PASSED TO BARAZANI AND TALBANI!
We have NEW SADDAMNEDS. We are not the only ones who complain. THe Yezidi, Shabak and even Turkmen complain about these BULLY OPPORTUNIST Curds.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
10/15/05 09:50 AM
|
Member
Group: MEIC Members/Donors
Posts: 6,042
Joined: 03/22/05 02:20 PM
From: NYC, USA
Member No.: 17
|
QUOTE(AssyrianAnvil) QUOTE(maako) QUOTE(chase) anvil, The USA can't leave you unprotected when they leave so what's your solution? A protected state in the Nineveh Plains? Look I'm naive in the world of political science but I do see a need to protect your culture and survival as a people. Please respond calmly and don't yell like you did to concheet, ok?
Chase , yes you are naive in many respects , like most well intentioned Americans. Washington will always act in the interests of Corporate America and couldnt care fly-poo abt other people including its own under-class/ disadvantaged. Human life + well-being only matters as ASSETS for exploitation WHEN REQUIRED in their Profit + Loss Accounts.
Open your eyes and get real. We're still only fodder for the financial elite.  You are 100000% correct, Maako. Oh, well there you have it - one pea sprouts-forth and another pea clones it. So now we've got two peas shooting irrelevancies from their anti-American pod w/ no possible solutions. Grrrreat!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
10/15/05 10:26 AM
|
Member
Group: MEIC Conversion Group
Posts: 686
Joined: 03/22/05 03:29 PM
From: Chi-'Burb
Member No.: 19
|
QUOTE(chase) QUOTE(AssyrianAnvil) QUOTE(maako) QUOTE(chase) anvil, The USA can't leave you unprotected when they leave so what's your solution? A protected state in the Nineveh Plains? Look I'm naive in the world of political science but I do see a need to protect your culture and survival as a people. Please respond calmly and don't yell like you did to concheet, ok?
Chase , yes you are naive in many respects , like most well intentioned Americans. Washington will always act in the interests of Corporate America and couldnt care fly-poo abt other people including its own under-class/ disadvantaged. Human life + well-being only matters as ASSETS for exploitation WHEN REQUIRED in their Profit + Loss Accounts.
Open your eyes and get real. We're still only fodder for the financial elite. You are 100000% correct, Maako. Oh, well there you have it - one pea sprouts-forth and another pea clones it. So now we've got two peas shooting irrelevancies from their anti-American pod w/ no possible solutions. Grrrreat! That's not true, I am only saying "how it is". And if I happen to agree with Maako I will say it...I have a history of not agreeing with the guy, but when he is right he is right, and I always give up proper due I am never shy about that, nothing "personal" from my part and I have made that very clear...
Also, I always look for solutions. This is why I tell the Jews on this forum that they should DIVORCE from this evil marraige with the Kurds, that is, if they remember their own situation with the Palestinians. One would think, that after going through a genocide and fighting over being indigenous to their land, that they would be sympathetic and SUPPORT US. But I guess that those labels are reserved for them, only THEY suffered genocides and only THEY MATTER, as far as being INDIGENOUS to their lands. I should have known their "position", when they bastardized the Semite word and tried to make it THEIR OWN as being synonymous and ONLY for Jews, knowing damn well there are other Semites existing, and IRONICALLY the GODFATHERS of ALL SEMITES, the AssyrioBabylonians. (in reference to "ANTISEMITE" meaning antijew)
What more can I do? Americans do not care about the Christians of the Middle east, infact, they probably want to go as far away from that as possible. Not saying the reason is that they think we are "HERETICS", but I guess that if we were of some sort of Evangelical church, we would get more attention (aint that right Billy Graham G dubbya?). While the Muslims make it a Islam vs Christianity thing, the Americans won't do that, and guess at who's expense it is? Thats why our churches got burned before and we were attacked from all over. What an opportune time to harrass the "annoying Assyrians".
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
11/25/05 12:21 PM
|
New
Group: MEIC Conversion Group
Posts: 7
Joined: 11/25/05 11:26 AM
Member No.: 277
|
mummy, turks are coming....
MEIC Edit - Threats and the like will not be tolerated on this board - Steve
ISTANBUL, SINCE 1453
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
06/29/06 03:11 PM
|
TURKIST
Group: MEIC Conversion Group
Posts: 2,409
Joined: 11/08/05 12:31 PM
From: WESTERN TURKISTAN
Member No.: 262
|
QUOTE(kurdistani @ 01/15/06 10:27 AM) [snapback]64813[/snapback]
To be fair the Greeks were not under Allied commanded... they invaded Anatolia of their own accorded... and Pissed of the French and Italians that they decided that it was not worth fighting the Kemalists becasue the Greeks would be the winners so after they (French and Italians) were defeated by the Kemalists... instead of sending more troops they abandoned the region....
Greeks were not under the control of allied ?!? That is the most non-sense thing I've ever heard. Venizelos , King of Greece , has dealt with English admirals and officers about the invasion of Anatolia. England was not about to leave the Aegean coasts of Anatolia to Italians as they were promised before . Because , England could not handle a strong Italian fleet and state . ( English invaded Cyprus legally by 1918 - Armistace of Mondros ) A weak Greece might balance the forces . A highly supported English propaganda is made in Greece with the command of Admiral Arthur Bristol . Admiral Bristol has declared a report to Camara of Avam ; which tells Greeks of Izmir are suffered after armistace . That was a reason for risque and England had the international right to invade Western coast WITH A ***KING SLANDER . They 've incited the people of Greece and British fleet with Greek infantry has landed to Izmir . Their first job was to KILL THE governor of IZMIR by BUTTs of rifles . His crime : " He has not cried the sentence Long Live Venizelos " . English were not abandoned there . When Greeks are wiped out from our lands, Turkish army faced with an English battalion in Yalova . But Turks and English has not open fire to each other . They 've went back to England by saluting Turkish flags .
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
07/11/06 06:44 PM
|
Member
Group: MEIC Conversion Group
Posts: 973
Joined: 09/08/05 05:42 AM
From: LSE....
Member No.: 168
|
QUOTE(Mordoth @ 07/08/06 06:06 AM) [snapback]85078[/snapback]
Your weird assertions do not make any sense man !
Turkish community of USSR , especially Azeri Turks , have sent their jewelry to Moscow " to be sent to Turkish insurgence " . Enver Pasha has stand against Russians in Uzbekstan , but he was caught in Tashkent . He 's than exiled by tyrant russians .
USSR has never been the allies of Turks . They 've sent 4 aeroplanes . Nothing more , no much bullet .
Lenin has nothing to do with Ataturk and supporters of millions of Turks .
,Nonsense ! NON - SENSE
1. The Azeris sent there jewelry to the Kemalists... So yes, Turks in the USSR were pro Kemalist. But the Kemalists did not help them. 2. Enver Pasha was exiled from the Ottoman Empire. Mustafa Kemal hated him for leading the Ottoman Empire into war. 3. Enver's movement in central Asia was not under the command of the Kemalist. 4. Soviets sent gold and cash to Turkey as well as weaponary. 5. Mustafa Kemal set up a fake communist party to gain Soviet support. 6. Kemalist nationalism was NOT pan-Turanist. They made no claims of Azerbajian nor did they even push the Mosul question after 1922. 7. the USSR undermined the pro Moscow communist parties in Turkey to maintain good relations with Turkey in the Interwar period. Check this book out... http://www.routledge-ny.com/shopping_cart/...ent_id=&pc=
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
08/28/06 08:58 AM
|
Member
Group: MEIC Conversion Group
Posts: 1,103
Joined: 12/13/05 03:26 PM
From: Central of the Turkey
Member No.: 291
|
QUOTE
@mesopotamia
TURKS AND KURDS = UNHOLY LYING COWARDLY KILLERS!!!!!!!!!
RECOGNIZE THE Assyrian, ARMENIAN, GREEK, GENOCIDE OF 1915
You idiot, can you give here any source? Greeks, armenians attached to Turks and when losting yours war: so called "genocide". Greeks scurvys burning Izmir, killing peoples, raped childs. After idiots opening here a topic " Turk's killed, greek genocide(!)". We are not make genocide but i want to make genocide on the scurvy Greeks. Becuase today Chaldren, chase type traitors was not spoking here. I never feel same think for armenians and Assyrians because in Ottoman times armenians asn assryrians was trust peoples. Was managements important tasks. Not like Greeks. Greeks was always parazitice, always triators. Yesteday and today not changed any. Before escaping scurvy Greek cowards in Izmir, burning all Izmir:   Some scurvys dont right say to any, yours attached our countrie and yours dead. If your attached again yours will dead again, no more another way! Regards,
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
09/23/06 09:05 PM
|
Member
Group: MEIC Conversion Group
Posts: 1,755
Joined: 09/20/06 08:07 PM
Member No.: 966
Conflict/Cultural/Country Interest: armenia, turkey, azerbaijan, mostly, ...christian lebanon...
|
QUOTE(maako @ 09/25/05 09:30 PM) [snapback]44796[/snapback] Looks like the Macedonians were not Greeks, nor spoke 'Greek' http://www.historyofmacedonia.org/ConciseM...sNotGreeks.html" "Why Macedonia and the Macedonians had Never been Greek? 1. The ancient Macedonians were a distinct nation, separate from their neighbors, the ancient Greeks, Illyrians, and Thracians. The ancient Greek and Roman historians tell us that the Macedonians spoke a separate Macedonian language and had their own customs, culture, and traditions. Archeological discoveries confirm that the material culture of the Macedonians also defer greatly from all their neighbors, and it is by far more superior in artistry (gold, paintings, weapons, mosaics) then anything found in contemporary Greece, Illyria, and Thrace. The texts of the ancient writers distinguish the Macedonians from the ancient Greeks, just like they distinguish the Romans and the Carthaginians. Yet, like the other non-Greeks, Carthaginians, Romans, Illyrians, and Thracians, the Macedonian high society also used the Greek language along with Macedonian. Greek was spoken by the nobility of many different ancient nations, just like French was spoken in the 19th century (at the German and Russian courts for example). Unfortunately there are only about 150 glosses that have survived of the ancient Macedonian language (most of them with no relation whatsoever with ancient Greek), and like ancient Carthaginian, Illyrian, and Thracian, it can not be reconstructed. There is no doubt nevertheless that the Illyrains, Thracians, and Macedonians were non-Greeks, or in the words of the ancient Greeks "barbarians" which literally means people who spoke other non-Greek languages. ============ "Hellenes " appear to have been a 19th Century term. not true, the ancient macedoneans were one of the northern greek tribes, yet they did not share all the civilisation traits characterised in greek civilisation, the greeks didn't consider them full greeks, but the macedonians wanted to believe so... the macedoneans living there now are slavs, not hellens QUOTE(kurdistani @ 10/27/05 04:24 PM) [snapback]51700[/snapback]
You know... I am in favour in principle of an Assyrian state... If there is indeed a territory with an Assyrian majority and the people so demand then why not have an Assyrian sate... However, this has to be coupled with a dose of realism...
Many Assyrians have left the middle east in the last 100 years... becasue they were stuck in a sea of Islam and the politiciation of Islam and ethnic differences has lead to conflict with the Kurdish, Turkish and Arabic communities....
I think however, AA's hate and racism towards Kurds is point less.... Assyrians don't make up the majority of the population in any governorate in Iraq, or Turkey or anyplace... Kurds do... and whatever the historical rights and wrongs of the matter... it is unfair to blame todays Kurds for the crimes of the past... there should be recognision... If we blame todays Kurds for the crimes of our grand farthers then we slip into to the idea of collective punishment...
Assyrians in the middle east are one of the oldest cultural groups.... and if they prove to be unable to form a state becasue of demographic reasons their culture and language should be protected through the creation of an Assyrian cultural region which Assyrians in the west can return to and develope...
The main problem that people like AA have is the fact that most Assyrians in the west are unwilling to take a risk and return to their homeland.... Life in the west is too easy and it is easy to sloganeer on the internet....
if you accept that your forefathers have done crimes, by cristian law, you are not accused
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
