Baku, Azerbaijan, the origins of the name.. Options

[Hosank]

BAGAVAN in antiant Armenian, or related langueges means

BAG-Astvats
BAG-A-VAN........Astvatsneri Avan

In Russian or Slavic, Bag became BOG

I'm no expert but there is an Armenian Historian from Iran who claims this exact phrase

about Baku, it is no mistake landlords were Armenians in ancient times, barrowing from various Indo-European languages!! Armenian, Pahlavi, Mitani etc..... mostly gave rise to Turkic languages, thus Bag (k) became Bak (u) U being a typical as of that is oghl-U

There is very little archeological evidence to this( about baku) and Historians now days study what was written down by past historians
True historian must have a knowledge and understanding of languages spoken; this is the only way to trace history back
This is exactly what the Armenian Historian is presenting

[Hosank]

The Origin of the Name Azarbaijan

The renowned Russian academician Bartold has this to say about the origin of the name Azarbaijan: “Before Alexander’s incursion Iranian Azarbaijan (the real H.) was an inseparable part of Media and didn’t have an independent administration. In the battle of Gaugamela Atropat was the satrap of entire Media… After Alexander, a part of Media that was called the Lesser Medes remained under Atropat’s rule. Later on Atropat’s name was added to the name of this land. The Greeks called it Atropatena and the Armenians called it Atrpatakan. This is where the name of Azarbaijan originated. (Emphasis is mine H.)”

After Alexander's victory over Darius III and the fall of the Achaemenid Empire, Iran came under the Seleucid rule soon after Alexander's death. However, a satrap named Aturpat (Atrpat, Atropat, Atropates) established an independent state in the northwest region of Iran (known as the Lesser Medes) which from then on was called Aturpatekan (Aturpayegan in Old Persian or Parthian) after him. After some 23 centuries, the region is still called Atrpatakan in Armenian as opposed to Adrbeijan (the approximate Arabic pronunciation) which is used to designate the bogus state north of the region.

The Meaning of the Term Azarbaijan

Atrpat or Aturpat means keeper of fire:

The "atr" (as in Armenian ատրճանակ atrtjanak, ատրուշան atroushan) part is clear and it means fire.

The "pat" in the name, defined as keeper, (changed to pai: Persian payidan = to keep. Compare: Armenian/Parthian Atrpatakan/Atrpatekan to later Persian Aturpayegan) may have also had the same meaning of present day պատ, Atrpat meaning surrounded by fire or maybe պատել meant պահել (Persian payidan) in the past.

The "akan" part is also clear. parskakan, hyekakan, fransakan, angliakan, hndkakan, arabakan, islamakan, etc. It's the suffix that means attributed to or specific to. Atrpatakan = attributed, land of Atropat.

The word Azarbaijan is the Persianized form of the Arabized word for Aturpayegan, the "z" sound replacing the Arabic "dhal" which is similar to the voiced "th" in "this", not existing in Persian. As stated earlier the Arabized word "Adrbeijan" is used in Armenian for the artificially created state, "d" being considered closer to the "dhal" than "z" in Armenian which also does not have any form of the "th" sound.

The moral of the story: don’t buy “Azeri” distory garbage. Azarbaijan has a 100% pure and unadulterated Iranian/Armenian or if you prefer indoEuropean origin and has nothing whatsoever the hell to do with Turkish bullshit "land of fire", or the "Azeri" fable: "az - ar - bai - ajan" = "Turk - man - beg - jan jan" or something (sounds like ar-ar, braying of a donkey in Persian)

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there are lot of towns and some cities with ermeni names. Van, tatvan , etc.


Also I found this very interesting, all of the word listed below means father:

* 1- Turkic Dialects:

* • Uygur,Koybal,Kazan,Kirgiz and West dialects...........Ata
* • Kuman, Televut dialects.......................................Atta
* • Çuvasça..............................................................Atey
* • Kazanca.............................................................Etey,ata
* • Altayca...............................................................Ada

* 2- Asia Minor languages:
* • Sumerian...........................................................Ad,adda
* • Elam .............................................................Atta
* • Mitanni .........................................................Atta(i)
* • Hitit ...............................................................Atta
* • Luwi ..................................................................Tati

* 3- Indo European:
* • Grek...............................................................Atta
* • Latin...............................................................Atta,atavus
* • Got....................................................................Atta
* • Nord............................................................Atte
* • Old german ...........................................Atto
* • Old Slavic........................................................Atetz
* • Polap ............................................................Otay
* • Middle Irish....................................................Aite
* • Votyak .........................................................Atay
* • Hungarian.............................................................Atya

* 4-Some Others:
* • Kalmuk dili.........................................................Atey
* • Bask dili............................................................Aita
* • Eskimo dili.........................................................Atatak


I had some more but I have too look them up.

Nice work Hosank.

[Glock21]

The vast majority of historians believe the word Baku comes from "Bad-Kube", which in old Persian means "city of winds". People today still refer to Baku as the city of winds, and if you walk along the seaside bulvar you will know why.

[irlandahay]

there are lot of towns and some cities with ermeni names. Van, tatvan , etc.
Also I found this very interesting, all of the word listed below means father:


* • Middle Irish....................................................Aite

the armenian names are there because they are all armenian cities. Van, Dikranagert, ani, Kars, all those little places with armenian names and left over armenian churches...they didnt just land there turk.

you people always shoot yourselves in the foot.

and the irish word for father isnt Aite, Its Patre

[Glock21]

Athair is father in Irish Gaelic.

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the armenian names are there because they are all armenian cities. Van, Dikranagert, ani, Kars, all those little places with armenian names and left over armenian churches...they didnt just land there turk.



and the irish word for father isnt Aite, Its Patre

You mean were , since they belong to my state now and before that Ottoman empire and before that Selcuk empire and before that Bzyntine empire and before that Greko / Macedonian empire and before that Persian empire etc......

Ermenis just lived in them.

Middle Irish refers to a date, not part of a body

[Hosank]

no, we lived and them, and you just collected taxes from them......................................................................................................oh, and killed, raped, stole, raided as you saw fit...till the genocide...

actually, that is quite interesting.
i think that the word comes from indo-european languages. since there are indo-european tribes, who several thousand years ago migrated to central asia, where they were eventually incorporated into the turkic peoples. so maybe that is how the terminology got around...

and, yah, to be honest, im not sure myself about the name baku, this was just something i heard. i am sure about the name azerbaijan though.

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Hosank you are making a huge logical mistake man. Ermeni that lived in the lands of Sultan didn't own the lands. Neither did anybody else. All land belonged to the Sultan and the taxes were quite just actually. Just read the article from Karl Marx about how Ottoman economical system worked and you'll get my point.

So if giving taxes according to you means that owning those lands, you are wrong. It was an empire and the emperor owned everything. Anyone that didn't like it could leave. But Ottoman Empire being the greatest nation on earth for a long while and quite cosy place to live in, nobody wanted to leave...


The rape, attack etc... are all drama and I am fed up for drama queens

[Urartu]

But Ottoman Empire being the greatest nation on earth for a long while and quite cosy place to live in, nobody wanted to leave...

Yup, a cozy place indeed. That’s why Romania, Bulgaria, and Greece all fought for independence. That why there was massive Arab revolts against the empire. That’s why barley any Armenians remain in Turkey compared to before 1915. That’s why Greeks, Kurds, Assyrians, and Armenians all hate Turks. It’s just that…… YOU WERE SO GOD DAMN NICE!!!! I MEAN HONESTLY!!! WE CAN ONLY TAKE SO MUCH TOLERANCE AND AFFECTION!!!

Let’s be realistic here arrow. Honestly, how much kindness did you think we could take?!?! The problem with all the people on this forum is they don’t understand that Turkey was, is, and will continue to be “The perfect state”

If only we could arrest and persecute the people on this forum for their hatred to the flawless state!!! Like we do in Turkey. Then all would be well. ALL WOULD BE PERFECT *psychotic laughter* (licks a picture of Ataturk) *more psychotic laughter followed by a LOUD, SMELLY, FART*

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Yup, a cozy place indeed. That’s why Romania, Bulgaria, and Greece all fought for independence. That why there was massive Arab revolts against the empire.

Yes, after 600 years and I am sure those had nothing to do with rising nationalism after French Revolution.. Geez, you need more social / historical reading. You seem to have the bad habit of blaming Turks for everything....

Let’s be realistic here arrow. Honestly, how much kindness did you think we could take?!?! The problem with all the people on this forum is they don’t understand that Turkey was, is, and will continue to be “The perfect state”

Thank you for your compilemnts but nothing is perfect. We are just not as bad as you think. Btw, where do you live and who are you again ?

If only we could arrest and persecute the people on this forum for their hatred to the flawless state!!! Like we do in Turkey. Then all would be well. ALL WOULD BE PERFECT *psychotic laughter* (licks a picture of Ataturk) *more psychotic laughter followed by a LOUD, SMELLY, FART*

I am sure in a police state like Ermenistan or todays Iraq what you said is one of the options, not todays Turkiye... And you need help

[Hosank]

lol turk, i say it is you that must read more, since up to now, you seem to really believe in your little utopic land of fairy tales, where all peoples lived happily together...


lol..
incase you have been a coma since 1917, have you not seen what the brainchild of marx has done? 150 MILLION DEATHS...in only 70 years....if there is a greater evil then turkism, it's communism..

so, what you are saying is that either karl marx calculated his system in a terribly incorrect way, leading to the scurge of the earth called communism, or he purposely based his theory on the ottoman empire, knowing the evil it would bring..

your choice...

and btw, britain also had an empire, yet the king did not own all the land. same, in the ottoman empire, people owned land, but armenians and greeks WERE heavily taxed..

[Urartu]

Yes, after 600 years and I am sure those had nothing to do with rising nationalism after French Revolution.. Geez, you need more social / historical reading. You seem to have the bad habit of blaming Turks for everything....

LOL, yea, nationalism. It’s funny how you tell us we were nationalistic and revolted and committed atrocities and genocides. But when we tell you the nationalistic regime of the young Turks committed atrocities and genocides against Armenians, Assyrians, Greeks, and Kurds to create Turkey for Turks. You act like we’re propaganda spreading liars. If you are so quick to accuse US of nationalism then maybe, first, you should look at yourself.

[Hosank]

interesting how you blame others for what you do in a more cruel fascion

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Ok , I ll reply the above 3 posts together sşnce they hold litlle argumental value...

1- Karl Marx probably didn't think that millions would die becouse of an economical system that was supposed to make thing better in economical ways...

2- Hosank don't pıt words in my mouth then argue with them. I never said people lived happily together, they had no choice, they were invaded. If they were strong enough at the first place they wouldn't be invaded now would they ??

When they had the power and the cahnce they gained their freedom, as happens in all colonised nations.

3- I know that Britain gave landlords their own lands in return for their services, that was Britain not Ottoman Empire..

4- Heavy taxes, I am paying 45 % in Can and almost 75 % in Turkiye I am going to revolt soon

5- Urartu I didn't accuse you of anything, yet. I don't even know who you are. But let me ask you a question. Why did all of the colonies of Ottoman Empire revolted almost simultaniously ?

[Hosank]

3 posts together sşnce they hold litlle argumental value...

1- Karl Marx probably didn't think that millions would die becouse of an economical system that was supposed to make thing better in economical ways...

lol...
lost in translation?

turk, if marx really based his economic system to improve live in economical ways(lol..i donno what kind of english they teach you in vancouver) on the ottoman system, then obviously, he was not trying to improve anyone's life, or he was just plain coucou

yes you did say we lived happy and in harmony with the turks, and that one day, the armenians decided to massacre their fellow turkish farmers, and that is why the ottoman government, clearly overwhelmed, and taken by surprise by this surge of armenian terrorism, managed to put a plan together, years before this happened, and eliminated more then half the armenians..

about invations. picture being the only christian nation, in a sea of islam, first being invaded by arabs, then turkomens, then mongols, and then seljuk turks, all at once...and still survive for another millenia? hm..i wounder how much turkey would have been able to take in the same situation..

When they had the power and the cahnce they gained their freedom, as happens in all colonised nations.

yes, only, you prevented our quest for freedom, by genociding our nation, before we could join our greek brothers in self determination

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Ermeni

I am not lost anywhere, but I kinda have this wierd feeling that every topic eventually turns into you blaming me and into how bad I am and how I turned you into a victim... Maybe we should have just one topic where you can let go your hate freely without trying to find excuses in different topics and be done with it.


So according to you Marx wanted to change things for what? This is probably the last topic we haven't discussed about yet..

And yes we lived in harmony for centuries, I can easily say so becouse your ancestors never revolted or fought for independance. And I'd never call an Ermeni coward , so the reason for not revolting must be becouse they were satisfied with their lives...

And about invasions... I can never know that coming from a people of invaders and never invaded.

[irlandahay]

Yup, a cozy place indeed. That’s why Romania, Bulgaria, and Greece all fought for independence. That why there was massive Arab revolts against the empire. That’s why barley any Armenians remain in Turkey compared to before 1915. That’s why Greeks, Kurds, Assyrians, and Armenians all hate Turks. It’s just that…… YOU WERE SO GOD DAMN NICE!!!! I MEAN HONESTLY!!! WE CAN ONLY TAKE SO MUCH TOLERANCE AND AFFECTION!!!

Let’s be realistic here arrow. Honestly, how much kindness did you think we could take?!?! The problem with all the people on this forum is they don’t understand that Turkey was, is, and will continue to be “The perfect state”

If only we could arrest and persecute the people on this forum for their hatred to the flawless state!!! Like we do in Turkey. Then all would be well. ALL WOULD BE PERFECT *psychotic laughter* (licks a picture of Ataturk) *more psychotic laughter followed by a LOUD, SMELLY, FART*

Hahaha, good one Urartu.

Yes, we all hate turks because they are perfect and we are jealous of them...

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Hahaha, good one Urartu.

Yes, we all hate turks because they are perfect and we are jealous of them...

It must be a relief to finally accept that you are jealous becouse we have the beatufiul Mt Ararat and your so called west ermenistan. Oh what a lovely piece of land it is

[irlandahay]

It must be a relief to finally accept that you are jealous becouse we have the beatufiul Mt Ararat and your so called west ermenistan. Oh what a lovely piece of land it is

mt ararat? now wait a second mister! My hero and saviour Mustafa kemal ataturd wrote in a book that it was mount agri! and that it was a turdish mountain! but if you call it mount Ararat, the name that its been called since biblical times and known throughout the world by that name, wouldnt that mean that its original owners and namers of that mountain are the Armenians?! wow, I have been living a lie, all my life I thought the turks were nice people and never stole anything, but tell me Mustafa, how did cities like van and Ani end up in turkish hands? and how did mountains like Ararat end up in turkish hands? and beautiful churches like Akhtamar end up in Turkish hands? where did its original inhabitants go?

Their dead turk and killed by your ancestors. you should be ashamed to represent such a vile nation...

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mt ararat? now wait a second mister! My hero and saviour Mustafa kemal ataturd wrote in a book that it was mount agri! and that it was a turdish mountain! but if you call it mount Ararat, the name that its been called since biblical times and known throughout the world by that name, wouldnt that mean that its original owners and namers of that mountain are the Armenians?! wow, I have been living a lie, all my life I thought the turks were nice people and never stole anything, but tell me Mustafa, how did cities like van and Ani end up in turkish hands? and how did mountains like Ararat end up in turkish hands? and beautiful churches like Akhtamar end up in Turkish hands? where did its original inhabitants go?

Their dead turk and killed by your ancestors. you should be ashamed to represent such a vile nation...

Thank you for proving me right with the jealousy. And I have no problem at all calling Ararat, Constantinapoli etc. As I previously stated we don't deny history at all, we deny lies

[Hosank]

ok most of what you said did not make any logical sense, so let's just leave it at that..

but, this, i found alittle funny...

And yes we lived in harmony for centuries, I can easily say so becouse your ancestors never revolted or fought for independance. And I'd never call an Ermeni coward , so the reason for not revolting must be becouse they were satisfied with their lives...

so, we, being totally, opressed, not allowed to bare arms, not allowed to organise ourselves, did not revolt...because we lived happily with the turk?? the turks who came from some far away land, became our overlords, took our lands, our women, our freedom?
you really live in an ottoman utopic world don't you.? armenians have been mistreated (along with romanians, bulgarians, greeks, Assyrians) for centuries....we didn't revolt, because we could not..
and what kind of logic is that? because we wern't oppressed to the point of outright genocide, we didn't revolt? but what happens when we did in 1915?

and, do you not consider the genocide to be the turkish answer to armenian rebellion? now, if the armenians were to rebel, why would it be for? because we love you? because we are treated fairly? because we had equal rights and freedom???

your statements are so paradoxal, and yet you cannot even realise the extent of oxymorons you have in your argument

Thank you for proving me right with the jealousy

i don't get it...
jealousy and justice are the same word in turkish?

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Yea just drop the topic when you can't do anything about it, nice evasion

The reality is there, we lived together for centuries. I don't care why we lived for centuries without any conflict, we just did.

And I know for fact that when you go on a revolt you either hurt or get hurt. Becouse revolutions are made by bloodshed. In your case you were handed your azzes to you and it is about time you start to live with the fact.

You are not going to get back any land, you are not going to get an opoligy for a fantasy genocide, and until you beg us we will not stop the blockade. I know ı sound harsh to you but someone has to say it and I really am sorry to be the one to tell you so.

And yes you are jealous becouse we have the lands you dream of want so bad to get back to. And all your anger, frustration comes from that desire resulting with jealousy. And it is not a bad thing, it is part of being human, showing emotions is in human nature.

[Hosank]

Yea just drop the topic when you can't do anything about it, nice evasion icon_razz.gif

actually, if i recall, this is what you love to do the most, only you dismiss it as "alot of bla bla with some whining" am i right? only, in my case, i have no choice for what you right cannot grammatically be labelled english, i would love to answer, but i just can't get it? as in this case, where i will try anyways to make you happy.

The reality is there, we lived together for centuries. I don't care why we lived for centuries without any conflict, we just did.

yes, we lived, but living at an inch of death is not what we call living happily..

Becouse revolutions are made by bloodshed.

no revolution means, change, just look at the rose revolution, the orange revolution and so on...how much blood was shed then?

In your case you were handed your azzes to you and it is about time you start to live with the fact.

yes, we did, we got our azzes handed to our women, to our old men and to our children, and we do live with that fact, we live with it every day, that is why we are here, and that is why we want you to live with that fact as well, what do you not understand? why do you keep trying to deny, even though you admit to it yourself?

but once again, you have avoided an argument as well. if we lived well, why would we revolt? and if all nations of the empire also revolted, was it because they lived well? and did you not say that all nations have a right for self determination?

When they had the power and the cahnce they gained their freedom, as happens in all colonised nations.

see, we armenians DID want independence, after centuries of massacre and so on, only you didn't even leave us the chance to, you eliminated us before we could even have the chance. that is why it is genocide, you uprooted us from a land we lived on for 5 thousand years, you murdered us, you destroye all we had built (that you hadn't destroyed before hand)..

right now, land is not the most important, for we will get our land, maybe not today, or tomorrow, or in a hundred years, but one day, we will get it...empires rise and fall, yet armenia prevails, it has prevailed through the meds, Assyrians, persians, greeks, roman,s byzantines, arabs, muslims, tatars, turkomens, mongols, seljuks, ottomans, azeris, and now kemalist turkey, give it a while, your country is so unstable as it is...on brink of revolution. yet we armenians still live in (at least part of) our ancestral land, we still sing we still dance, we still speak armenian, we still go to armenian church...and one day we will be doing all that in the rest of our land..do not think for a second that what you have now will last turk. do not think that by bringing someone down, he will stay down for ever.

and, i really think you should look up the world jealousy in the dictionary, because i suspect that you do not know it's meaning since you use it quite wrongly.
let me give you an example.
you, turks, were jealous of the land we lived in, that is why you uprooted us and took it for yourselves. that is jealousy.
but you cannot use the same word and say, you armenians are jealous of us turks, because we kicked you out of your ancient lands, and now we live on it, and take benifit from it while you suffer... get it?

just look it up will you?
armenians don't beg btw, just look at the genocide, we would rather die then beg to you.

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actually, if i recall, this is what you love to do the most, only you dismiss it as "alot of bla bla with some whining" am i right? only, in my case, i have no choice for what you right cannot grammatically be labelled english, i would love to answer, but i just can't get it? as in this case, where i will try anyways to make you happy.

You mean " what I WROTE cannot be grammatically labelled as English" right. And this is the best piece of grammer I saw after IrlandaHay's "where speaking English here" Oh and you get all that I write pretty well, you just eveade them.

no revolution means, change, just look at the rose revolution, the orange revolution and so on...how much blood was shed then?

I usually remember French revolution. Oh and can you name a few more bloodless revolutions please?

yes, we did, we got our azzes handed to our women, to our old men and to our children, and we do live with that fact, we live with it every day, that is why we are here, and that is why we want you to live with that fact as well, what do you not understand? why do you keep trying to deny, even though you admit to it yourself?

Ok so we deported women and kids, where were the brave ermeni men back then, when their familes got deported

but once again, you have avoided an argument as well. if we lived well, why would we revolt? and if all nations of the empire also revolted, was it because they lived well? and did you not say that all nations have a right for self determination?
see, we armenians DID want independence, after centuries of massacre and so on, only you didn't even leave us the chance to, you eliminated us before we could even have the chance. that is why it is genocide, you uprooted us from a land we lived on for 5 thousand years, you murdered us, you destroye all we had built (that you hadn't destroyed before hand)..

The same reason why all other nations lived under rules of others revolted. You are also human remember and not so different then others. And the land you lived on for 5 milleniums, for the last millenium it belongs to us, and still do.

right now, land is not the most important, for we will get our land, maybe not today, or tomorrow, or in a hundred years, but one day, we will get it...empires rise and fall, yet armenia prevails, it has prevailed through the meds, Assyrians, persians, greeks, roman,s byzantines, arabs, muslims, tatars, turkomens, mongols, seljuks, ottomans, azeris, and now kemalist turkey, give it a while, your country is so unstable as it is...on brink of revolution. yet we armenians still live in (at least part of) our ancestral land, we still sing we still dance, we still speak armenian, we still go to armenian church...and one day we will be doing all that in the rest of our land..do not think for a second that what you have now will last turk. do not think that by bringing someone down, he will stay down for ever.
all we had built (that you hadn't destroyed before hand)..

Know this ermeni, you will not live to see these lands getting to your hands. You will die whining and hoping that one day someone will give these lands to you becouse you can't do anything about it yourself but whine.....

and, i really think you should look up the world jealousy in the dictionary, because i suspect that you do not know it's meaning since you use it quite wrongly.
let me give you an example.
you, turks, were jealous of the land we lived in, that is why you uprooted us and took it for yourselves. that is jealousy.
but you cannot use the same word and say, you armenians are jealous of us turks, because we kicked you out of your ancient lands, and now we live on it, and take benifit from it while you suffer... get it?

just look it up will you?
armenians don't beg btw, just look at the genocide, we would rather die then beg to you.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/jealousy

I just did look it up and it fits you perfeclty. You whine for the lands that is mine and that sounds like jealousy to me.

Oh and why should my ancestors be jealous of the lands you took care for Ottoman Sultan? Since all of Ottoman lands belonged to the Sultan why would he be jealous of his own land?? A possible dual personality syndrome perhaps eh

Hey when will you realise that we own this geography for over a millenium ?

Oh and you are begging to other nations instead you should beg to us.

[Hosank]

You mean " what I WROTE cannot be grammatically labelled as English" right. And this is the best piece of grammer I saw after IrlandaHay's "where speaking English here" icon_smile.gif Oh and you get all that I write pretty well, you just eveade them.

actually, we are both wrong, it should be write, and it is spelled grammar, not grammer, but what ever, it is pointless, and argumentatively lacking to argue about spelling for it brings us nowhere and culumnates into a bunch of personal attacks which are not credible in an argument of this sort.

I usually remember French revolution. Oh and can you name a few more bloodless revolutions please?

gladly, the quiet revolution, which is not so far from us, since it happened in quebec. the fall of the berlin wall, the indian independence movement, the fall of communism is poland was done bloodlessly as well..

once again, revolution, by definition means change, that change can be none bloodlessly as well. and if you find that the number if bloodless revolutions i have mentionned are insufficiant, then let as both be better men, and wish for a day when they will all be bloodless.

Ok so we deported women and kids, where were the brave ermeni men back then, when their familes got deported icon_smile.gif

most of them were already dead, when you drafted all into labour battalions in the military, only to bring them to forests, made them dig their own graves and shot them(as part of their already established plan to murder the entire armenian population, thus constituting genocide). many of these bones keep appearing up to today, when they are unearthed by turkish and kurdish farmers. those who survived joined fedayi groups, and managed to secure MOussa ler, Van, and Zeitun. many of them died heroically.

The same reason why all other nations lived under rules of others revolted.

yes, i agree, don't get me wrong, i am sure that many armenians were beginning to get the ideas of self determination into their heads, i mean, just look at the official name of the dashnaksutiun: Hay herapoghakan dashnaksutiun, meaning armenian revolutionary federation. yet those ideas were still primitive, and you did not let us gain our independence, since you got rid of us totally.

and, your empire stretched as far as morocco, and saudi arabia, yet these peoples were able to get rid of you, why don't you claime their land as well? just because they managed to stay in their land, and we just dissapeared. the british empire spanned as far as india, and hong kong, you know the saying "the sun never sets on the british empire" yet, where is that empire today? why does britain not try to invade india? since india was part of the british empire for as long as armenia was part of the ottoman empire?

it is not a question of your land, my land, it is a question of turkey trying to retain a small portion of it's lost imperialism, as simple as that.

first, posting the definition of jealousy does not prove to me that you comprehend it's meaning, for obviously, you showed us once more that you don't. second, there is no question of whining. whining to other nations is what the dashnaksutiun does, yet i will have you know that i am no member of the dashnaksutiun, and that party does not represent the totallity of the armenian nation. i intend to take matters into my own hands, do not worry.

i do not see: making nations realise the truth as begging. my ancestors rathered dying to begging, and so will i.

[arrow]

1- I didn't bring up the grammer, you did.

2- Most of the revolutions in history are bloodbaths. But the ones you posted are relatively peacefull.

3- Ermeni subjects were not in ottoman army for long, they deserted. Some of the ermeni resisted deportion and yes they fought and died. The rest just joined forces with Russia or deported.

4- Not your lands, your desire. You need to visit out customs to get in

5- Turkiye gained her freedom in 1923, all her borders are recognised by all nations on this planet. End of argument here. My states integrity is not in question. You may have demands but untill you achieve your goals they are my lands, my nation. The rest is whishfull thinking on your side.

6- I will visit Van and send you pictures, or name me a place and I will go there. Just to help you with jealousy.

7- It seems like begging to me. No offense intended.

[Hosank]

1- I didn't bring up the grammer, you did.

for the second time, it is spelled grammar, and i am the one saying we should stop pointlessly arguing on this, incase you have not read it, i thought you would be slightly more mature instead of saying "well ..you started it!"..can we burry it now please?

Ermeni subjects were not in ottoman army for long, they deserted.

lol, no, something much more gruesome, they were murdered, my great uncle almost suffered that fate, but he hid behind bushes and survived.

You may have demands but untill you achieve your goals they are my lands, my nation. The rest is whishfull thinking on your side.

what ever you say there champ, but i thought you would be less neive to know that what is officially recognized as a border is not always the right one.

I will visit Van and send you pictures, or name me a place and I will go there. Just to help you with jealousy.

go to ani while you are at it, see if your great army of the liberation of the turkish people will let you in..

[irlandahay]

You mean " what I WROTE cannot be grammatically labelled as English" right. And this is the best piece of grammer I saw after IrlandaHay's "where speaking English here" Oh and you get all that I write pretty well, you just eveade them.

oh dont worry, no one's eveade-ing your writing

[arrow]

oh dont worry, no one's eveade-ing your writing

ofcourse not, my bad

[arrow]

lol, no, something much more gruesome, they were murdered, my great uncle almost suffered that fate, but he hid behind bushes and survived.

ofcourse he did:)

what ever you say there champ, but i thought you would be less neive to know that what is officially recognized as a border is not always the right one.

Yea but you still need a visa if you are an ermenistan citizen to get in from those borders

go to ani while you are at it, see if your great army of the liberation of the turkish people will let you in..

You mean the museum city Ani in Kars ? Been there done that.

[Hosank]

were you allowed to take pictures?

[davit]

hosank you actually belive he "been there done that"

[hanim]

I hope readers don't take most of posts here seriously.

[Hosank]

well who knows?

[davit]

Athair is father in Irish Gaelic.

who would know better someone from ireland or someone from mongolia i mean turkey

think
and i feel bad for your peoples feet your probably handicaped always shoot yourself in the foot

[davit]

arrow ... man i staring to hate you really bad i dont know why

[arrow]

@ Hosank, there were no restrictions but no I didn't have my cam with me

@ David, I really like you man, you are honest, can even make jokes about yourself. I like such traits and it really doesn't matter if we don't share same opinions.

[Hosank]

you went touring the ancient armenian cities, which are a whole country away from constantinople, and half a world away from vancouver, and you didn't think to bring your camera?

interesting though, i had friends who went, and their cameras were either taken away by the soldiers, or they had to take the pictures secretly..

[arrow]

I was visiting my lands in Kars, it was not a touristic visit but more like a family thing. I also went to Mt. Agri, Van, Tatvan and Mt. Nemrut. You know that my family relocated to Kars after they had to flee the Russian brutalism.

I kinda like the place but summer is very hot and winter is just like Canada, freezing cold.

[Hosank]

and what, you simply ommited to bring a camera?
i find it interesting how you say 'my land' of kars, and use the term mount agri when speaking of ararat, you are like the only turk (aside from the government) who has used that name in reference to that mountain...
now if that is not a subtle provocation i don't know what is

but back to what i we were discussing, you basically went to kars, ararat, van and so on, which sounds to me like tourism, and you 'forgot' your camera? it seems alittle weird to me...

[Mordoth]

Well , we see how one Turanic nation - Irish - are corrupted because of the hatre that poisoned their mind

Products of westernization , may be .

They almost have too many prejudgements upon Turks, just listening to bed-stories ...etc

And one says ;

"Western christianity and russian vodka-syphilis culture tries to destroy most noble human-type, the Nomad . "
Kai Donner (Finnish)

[Hosank]

lol mordy///

why don't you go tell the irish what you think about them, and count the number of seconds before you are booted out of their country

[arrow]

and what, you simply ommited to bring a camera?
i find it interesting how you say 'my land' of kars, and use the term mount agri when speaking of ararat, you are like the only turk (aside from the government) who has used that name in reference to that mountain...
now if that is not a subtle provocation i don't know what is

but back to what i we were discussing, you basically went to kars, ararat, van and so on, which sounds to me like tourism, and you 'forgot' your camera? it seems alittle weird to me...

You don't get it, I own lands in Kars very close to ermenistan border, I rent the place to farmers and they pay me every year..... I visited all those places but not in one trip, in years....

And since it is in Turkiye the name is Agri, you can call it whatever you like, I don't care. No provacation intended. The name comes from a holy legend BTW, from the story of Noah's Ark.

BTW, I have a picture of me in my profile, also you want to see pictures which possibly will have me in them, why don't you show us your face sometime?

ANd remember you promised to post the hotties from your trip to ermenistan...

[Hosank]

lol, even the turkish government uses ararat, even with 'agri'..you often see agri (ararat)..because they know..
because if we follow that argument, kars is also in turkey, why didn't you change the name? (and don't you dare clame that kars is a turkish word)

why do i need a picture of me? maybe eventually i will place one..

and, yeh, i could post the pictures of armenian women, and probably will, but why don't you go to armenia and visit them yourself?

[arrow]

lol, even the turkish government uses ararat, even with 'agri'..you often see agri (ararat)..because they know..
because if we follow that argument, kars is also in turkey, why didn't you change the name? (and don't you dare clame that kars is a turkish word)

why do i need a picture of me? maybe eventually i will place one..

and, yeh, i could post the pictures of armenian women, and probably will, but why don't you go to armenia and visit them yourself?

I never heard any other name then Agri ,sorry..

I never wondered the history of the name of Kars neither.

How is construction business in ermenistan, specially on high end apartments and houses ?

[irlandahay]

And since it is in Turkiye the name is Agri, you can call it whatever you like, I don't care. No provacation intended. The name comes from a holy legend BTW, from the story of Noah's Ark.

Van is also an Armenian name, why dont you change that? Ani is also an Armenian name...why dont you change that?

no, truth is, its an armenian mountain, with an armenian name. BTW...that holy legend of which you speak? its in the bible and it is clearly written that "After 150 days, the Ark came to rest on the mountains of Ararat. The waters continued to recede, and after about seventy more days the hilltops emerged."

[Hosank]

I never heard any other name then Agri ,sorry..

lol, i highly doubt that..
and irlandahye, ani is no longer a functionning city, but a large ruin, there is no point in changing that name for it has no nationalistic value to the turk..

the construction sector in armenia is actually booming, in high end flats as well (mostly in yerevan obviously)

[arrow]

Van is also an Armenian name, why dont you change that? Ani is also an Armenian name...why dont you change that?

no, truth is, its an armenian mountain, with an armenian name. BTW...that holy legend of which you speak? its in the bible and it is clearly written that "After 150 days, the Ark came to rest on the mountains of Ararat. The waters continued to recede, and after about seventy more days the hilltops emerged."

Hi Irish I kinda missed you

We don't change names becouse of their origin. The name Agri is the name from Noah's ark legend ( holy story ). The story is exactly the same as you summerised, but then almost all of the stories in bible are also in kuran.

[arrow]

lol, i highly doubt that..
and irlandahye, ani is no longer a functionning city, but a large ruin, there is no point in changing that name for it has no nationalistic value to the turk..

the construction sector in armenia is actually booming, in high end flats as well (mostly in yerevan obviously)

I mean it, I never heard of any Turk / Turkish citizen calling the name any other name than Agri. But then names do not really matter, as I said it is in Turkiye and I have no reason to explain myself why I call a place a name diffrent than others, do I ?

Business; I may go to ermenistan if the construction is blooming but the problem with the ex soviet nations is the mob. You have to pay them to achieve something and I am not the bribe type of businessman.. But I admit, I had to use some connections in St. Petersburg.