Hocali Massacre, Was today in 1992 Options

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Olenlerin ruhlari saad olsun.

[Mordoth]

Türk çerisi ( askeri ) yenilmez. Sadece öldürülebilirler.

Bak, burada bize gereken Azerbaycan- Ermenistan arasındaki ateşkesi ihlal eden ermenilerin derhal Bileşmiş Milletler Barış konseyine şikayet edilmesi gerek.

En son ihlallerinde 2 Türk çerisi şehit oldu ama 15 ermeni de kürt oldu

[KHAZARI]

Türk çerisi ( askeri ) yenilmez. Sadece öldürülebilirler.

Bak, burada bize gereken Azerbaycan- Ermenistan arasındaki ateşkesi ihlal eden ermenilerin derhal Bileşmiş Milletler Barış konseyine şikayet edilmesi gerek.

En son ihlallerinde 2 Türk çerisi şehit oldu ama 15 ermeni de kürt oldu

yes i do hear about that the azeri army now is strong and can protect on azerbaycan.

yashasin azerbaycan!

[Danno]

hey guys...
Im ignorant about this topic so if u can elp me out itd be great

Im guessing this is the armenian azarbajani war rite?
what happen in this case?

[KHAZARI]

here you have some information about this topic:

http://www.kavkazcenter.com/eng/content/20...2/27/4468.shtml


By khazari at 2008-06-06



By khazari at 2008-06-06



By khazari at 2008-06-06

WE WILL NOT LET FORGETING OUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS!

[Danno]

im not sure but is that really a reliable source??? I mean it really doesnt look like it to me...and the guys up top really scare me !!

[veritas]

The article linked to in reference leaves out a hell of a lot of details/evidence.

It is a tradgedy for any child to die in war, and it was Armenians responsible true.

But the picture is not that black and white.

The article makes it sound as if they marched in and shot everyone which is not the case and this is recognised internationally.

[Hosank]

yes i do hear about that the azeri army now is strong and can protect on azerbaycan.

lol that's what they said 15 years ago, but they were still routed by a bunch of pesants with hunting rifles.

the reality is that alot of the money dissapears into corruption, the generals often make alot of it dissapear, including modern equipment for their own private armies.

also, way to place a completely bias link there khazari, i thought that you were on the side of justice and freedom, and human rights, now you seem to hint that you would prefer an autocratic and racist state because turkic ties seem deaper for you than human rights.

FACT SHEET: NAGORNO-KARABAGH
ARMENIAN RESEARCH CENTER
The University of Michigan-Dearborn
Dearborn, MI 48128


The Autonomous Region of Mountainous Karabagh (also known in America as Nagorno-Karabagh) recently declared independence from Azerbaijan because of continued persecution, oppression, and human and civil rights violations by the Azeri Turks. It was attached to Azerbaijan as an Autonomous Region by Joseph Stalin in 1921 and has suffered under Azeri rule from that time onward.

Mountainous Karabagh had a pre-war population of approximately 200,000 people, 77% of whom were Christian Armenians. The remaining 23% were mainly Muslim Azeri Turks. Nagorno-Karabagh's capital is Stepanakert. It has an area of about 1,700 square miles, slightly smaller than the state of Delaware.

* On December 10, 1991, Nagorno-Karabagh held an independence referendum in which 82% of all voters participated, and 99% voted for independence.

* On January 6, 1992, the leaders of Nagorno-Karabagh declared independence as the Republic of Mountainous Karabagh (RMK).

* On January 8, 1992, Artur Mkrtchian was elected President and Oleg Yessaian as Prime Minister of Karabagh by Karabagh's Parliament. Note that this Presidency is not an independent office such as in the United States.

* On January 24, 1992, Karabagh's Parliament elected Georgi Petrosian to the office of Vice President.

* On April 14, Artur Mkrtchian died in an accidental weapons misfire. Georgi Petrosian became acting President.

* On May 8, the Karabagh Defense Forces took Shushi, a city in Karabagh overlooking Stepanakert, from which the Azeris had been shelling Stepanakert.

* On May 18, the Karabagh Defense Forces took Lachin and connected Karabagh to Armenia, thus breaking the Azeri economic blockade on Karabagh (however, Armenia's situation was not much better since it too was—and still is—under Azeri blockade).

* On June 12, following the June 7 election of Abulfez Elchibey as President of Azerbaijan, the Azeris launched a massive offensive that seized almost half of Karabagh by September. Beginning in late fall, the Karabagh Defense Forces retook nearly all of these territories and restored the political integrity of Karabagh by late March 1993.

* On March 27, 1993, the Karabagh Defense Forces, to forestall an Azeri spring offensive, launched attacks at two strategic Azeri cities, Kelbajar and Fizuli. They took Kelbajar on April 3, but were unable to take Fizuli. The capture of Kelbajar gave Karabagh a new connection to Armenia.

* On June 14, acting President Georgi Petrosian resigned as Armenian President Levon Ter Petrosian travels to Stepanakert to persuade the Presidium of Karabagh's Parliament to accept a new CSCE peace plan, which it does by a vote of 6 to 5. Garen Baburian became the new acting President.

* June through August 1993 was a time of confusion in Azerbaijan as Surat Huseinov led a revolt against Elchibey; Haidar Aliyev became the new President of Azerbaijan; and a short-lived Mughan-Talish Republic was declared in Lenkoran, a port city near the Iranian border.

* July 23 to September 4 1993, Karabagh Defense Forces take Agdam, Fizuli, Jebrail, and Horadiz (although Horadiz keeps changing hands), thus taking the war to the rest of Azerbaijan.

* From December 22, 1993, to November 1994, the re-formed Azeri army, stiffened by Turkish and MegaOil (renegade Americans) training; Ukrainian, Turkish, and Chinese weaponry; and Afghan mujaheddin, launched new unsuccessful attacks on Karabagh.

* In May of 1994 a tenuous cease-fire went into effect, which is still holding today.

* December 28, 1994, The Karabagh Parliament created an independent Presidency such as in the United States and elected Robert Kocharian to fill it the next day.

Historical Background:

Historically Armenian, Nagorno-Karabagh was connected to Armenia in ancient times, a connection that was lost after the division of the Armenian Kingdom in 387 AD. With the rise of Islam in the seventh century, Karabagh fell under Arab rule, where it stayed for 300 years.

In the eleventh century, Karabagh came under the rule of the Bagratid Kings of Georgia, relatives of the Armenian Bagratids, who held it until the Mongol invasion. After 100 years of Mongol rule, Karabagh fell into Turkish hands, where it stayed until the Persians took power in the early 1600s.

In 1603, Shah Abbas the Great of Persia allowed local Armenian rule in Karabagh under five meliks (kings). These five kinglets, later joined—but not supplanted—by a Muslim khanate, survived until the Russian conquest of Karabagh in 1828.

Under Russian rule, a deliberate effort was made to link Karabagh economically with the "Baku Province," later to be named Azerbaijan. With the withdrawal of Russian power following the Russian democratic revolution in February/March of 1917, Karabagh reemerged as a state, governed by the Assembly of Karabagh Armenians.

The Azerbaijanis, who were trying to organize their own state, contested the Armenians' right to rule Karabagh, even though it was overwhelmingly Armenian. The Azeris first turned for help to the British occupation force led by General Dunsterville, then to the Ottoman army under Nuri *****, and finally to the Russian Bolsheviks. With foreign aid, they won out.

Soviet Period:

At first the Soviets returned Nagorno-Karabagh to Armenia; but after a brief period, Joseph Stalin gave it to Azerbaijan as an "autonomous region," and altered the boundaries so that Karabagh was cut off from Armenia and was smaller in size.

The next 70-plus years witnessed Azeri persecution of Armenians in an attempt to drive them out and replace them with Azeris, as was done in the Armenian territory of Nakhichevan.

In the Gorbachev era of glasnost, the Armenians brought the persecution of their brethren to the world's attention through massive peaceful demonstrations in Yerevan, the capital city of Armenia, in February 1988.

By openly and bravely protesting Soviet ethnic injustice for the first time, the reform movement in Nagorno-Karabagh ignited the independence movements in the Soviet Bloc of Eastern Europe. The "Karabagh Movement" is thus the grandfather of freedom not only in Eastern Europe but in the former USSR itself.

At that time the Armenians wanted to attach Nagorno-Karabagh to Armenia, to ensure its survival, but now they respect the wishes of the Nargorno-Karabagh Armenians to be independent. The independence movement has been met with appalling violence from the Azeris. In February 1988 there was a pogrom (massacre) against Armenians in Sumgait, a suburb of Baku, the capital of Azerbaijan. In November of 1988, there was a pogrom against Armenians in Kirovabad (now Ganja), in the interior of Azerbaijan. In 1989-90, there are joint Soviet-Azerbaijani forced deportations of Armenians living in towns and villages of Azerbaijan bordering Nagorno- Karabagh. In January of 1990, there was pogrom against Armenians in Baku itself.

When the Azeris began an outright military assault on the Armenians of Nagorno-Karabagh itself, they took up arms to defend their homes, their land, and their ancient culture. The Armenians are fighting for self-preservation and for the right of self- determination, while the Azeris are fighting to expel an ancient people from their historic homeland and to preserve power over a foreign province.

Today, a tenous cease-fire is in place and has been holding for the past 16 months. However, the Azeris number eight million and have a wealth of oil resources to draw upon in the coming years, and the Armenians of Nagorno-Karabagh only 160,000 and scant resources. Very little would prevent the Azeris from reopening hostilities and starting a full-scale war once the oil money enters its coffers. A genocide similar to that of 1915 is threatened unless the world takes an interest in and protects the lives of the embattled Armenian minority.

Despite numerous acts of provocation on the part of Azerbaijan—including a six-year-old blockade of Armenia—the Armenian government has studiously avoided being drawn into the war between the Armenians of Nagorno-Karabagh and the Azeri leaders in Baku. In October 1992, the US Congress enacted legislation banning direct US assistance to the government of Azerbaijan until the blockade is lifted and the aggression ends.

The six-year-old war has taken the lives of more than 16,000 people, and over 1,000,000 have been displaced. Azerbaijan currently has 600,000-1,000,000 refugees, Armenia 400,000 refugees, and Nagorno-Karabagh 60,000 refugees.

Current Issues:

* The United States and the United Nations should recognize the independence of the Republic of Mountainous Karabagh.

* Azeri leaders and Turkish leaders should reduce belligerent talk and cease to incite their people to war.

* Azerbaijan should cease hiring mujaheddin and other foreign mercenaries.

* Turkey should no longer train and supply Azerbaijani troops and should cease threatening gestures towards Armenia.

* Azerbaijan and Turkey should cease their illegal blockades of Armenia and Karabagh, which have caused untold suffering and death for the civilian population of Armenia.

* A permanent truce must be agreed upon and enforced.

* United Nations troops should be sent in to monitor a self- determination plebiscite.

Current Situation
The current situation is one of "no peace, no war." Negotiations continue, but with Azerbaijan insisting on the principle of "territorial integrity" (despite the fact that Eritrea was recognized by the world community as independent from Ethiopia after a war), little progress has been made.

April 3, 1996

here lets hope this is more to your liking

[KHAZARI]

lol that's what they said 15 years ago, but they were still routed by a bunch of pesants with hunting rifles.

the reality is that alot of the money dissapears into corruption, the generals often make alot of it dissapear, including modern equipment for their own private armies.

also, way to place a completely bias link there khazari, i thought that you were on the side of justice and freedom, and human rights, now you seem to hint that you would prefer an autocratic and racist state because turkic ties seem deaper for you than human rights.
here lets hope this is more to your liking

well hosank

now the situation are totally different.turkiye and azerbaycan working together and the azeri army and the turkish army working also together today to azerbaycan have army more skilled than 15 years ago.
anyway i do heare who presidents of azerbaycan and armenia start talking about solution to problems between two the countries.im realy hope who the end to conflict will be with peace between armenia and azerbaycan.this realy possible find solution who will good to two the countries. im sure who this better than the situation od now.

peace

[Hosank]

now the situation are totally different.turkiye and azerbaycan working together and the azeri army and the turkish army working also together today to azerbaycan have army more skilled than 15 years ago.

yes, but the azeri soldiers who fought 15 years ago were trained by the largest and most powerful land military in the world at the time, the soviet union. yet they still lost.

and keep in mind that the armenian and artsakh armies have both upgraided their weaponry and training. also, though the budget and the size of the armenian army is smaller than that of azerbaijan, the equipment they have been buying is much more modern and cheaper at the same time.

also what i hope you will realise, is that azerbaijan's prize resource, oil, is nothing more than a curse for them, because it serves to support an increasingly autocratic government, and destroying opposition, it helps corrupt generals, and soldiers, so if anything, corruption in the azeri army has increased since the war, as opposed to the opposite:

here watch this to understand corruption in azerbaijan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEHryA7x9cg

[KHAZARI]

yes, but the azeri soldiers who fought 15 years ago were trained by the largest and most powerful land military in the world at the time, the soviet union. yet they still lost.

and keep in mind that the armenian and artsakh armies have both upgraided their weaponry and training. also, though the budget and the size of the armenian army is smaller than that of azerbaijan, the equipment they have been buying is much more modern and cheaper at the same time.

also what i hope you will realise, is that azerbaijan's prize resource, oil, is nothing more than a curse for them, because it serves to support an increasingly autocratic government, and destroying opposition, it helps corrupt generals, and soldiers, so if anything, corruption in the azeri army has increased since the war, as opposed to the opposite:

here watch this to understand corruption in azerbaijan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEHryA7x9cg

ohh yes.. and the iranians support in armenian side this famous story my friend.everybody know that. but now the turks here hosank im sure who turkiye not let to azeri stay alone. dont worry. if you want a new war after this war you dtop to wish to another wars. you are too belittle of the azery people.

talk only after the next war. if this what who you are wish to happed so ahlan wa sahlan ya habibi.

btw the economy situation in armenia is no better than in azerbaycan.

greeting

[Danno]

The article linked to in reference leaves out a hell of a lot of details/evidence.

It is a tradgedy for any child to die in war, and it was Armenians responsible true.

But the picture is not that black and white.

The article makes it sound as if they marched in and shot everyone which is not the case and this is recognised internationally.

i understand what ur saying up at the top, but the bolded part u got sloppy bro, b/c the same can be said about the Assyrian genocide, and how its not recognized internationally...when well...it happened

[KHAZARI]

well hosni

what who mordoth write in turkish this who was shooting fight between armenian and azeri forces in the border and 2 azeri soldiers was killed and 15 armenians.im also heare about that in israeli news.intersting.so are you sure who you wish to another war my friend?

have a good day hosni boy

[Hosank]

he border and 2 azeri soldiers was killed and 15 armenians

i'm not sure where you get this information from, since, i usually check both armenian and azeri news networks, and i never heard of 15 armenians dying in one day.
infact, the most i heard was 8 azeris dying in february (well the azeris say 8 the armenians say 10). there are always small skirmishes on the border but that has been going on for years now.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=d5kgH38G7tc
http://youtube.com/watch?v=B4HT7nhbD_w

why would the armenians want another war? we have what we wanted, we liberated [part of] the lands where our people had lived for at least 2 thousand years. if you really listen to news, you should know that it is not us, but aliyev who insinuates war at every turn:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=pjkJ36f8WGs
see, the president of azerbaijan even claims he wants to invade yerevan.

ohh yes.. and the iranians support in armenian side this famous story my friend

also, this is puure myth, and i will explain why it is so extravagant. first off, the only deals between armenia and iran are on a hydro dam, and a gas pipeline, as well as some trade. nothing more, there is no military, alliance, or otherwise. armenia first off, would never accept weaponry or military support from iran because it is an enemy of the united states, and armenia needs to be on the US's good side to gain financial backing for civilian projects, second, iran would never arm armenia: imagine the ISLAMIC republic of iran arming the first christian state against a muslim country that iran considers to be part of it anyways. plus, iran has some 15 million azeris in it's borders, which they do not really care to upset.

also, my uncle's house is right on the highway that goes from yerevan to the iranian border, and trust me, you don't see any tanks, or missles with iranian flags coming up or down..

if you want a new war after this war you dtop to wish to another wars. you are too belittle of the azery people.

i'm not sure why you are so insistant that we are the agressors,..why would we want to start a new war?

btw the economy situation in armenia is no better than in azerbaycan.

actually this is quite untrue: evidently, armenia is not as wealthy as france, but how ever, it has put in place many proper privitisation efforts, free trade agreements, and has considerably cut down on corruption. you must understand that in econimics, determining the economy of a country by GDP is quite misleading, thus some countries like sudan have some of the worlds highest economies, even though virtually all of it's population lives under the poverty line. thus petrol grosses the GDP of a country, but in reality means nothing.

it would be more interesting too look at things such as pop. below the poverty line, where armenia has 23% for azerbaijan's 51%, or the unimployement rate, or the inflation rate: armenia has 2.5% inflation, for azerbaijan's 10% (to compare, canada has a 2 percent)

also, you should like to compare that armenia's human rights, personal freedoms, and economic freedom are way higher than azerbaijans. (armenia ranks 4th in the ex-soviet union, after the 3 baltic states) and ranks in the top 40 in the world.

thus, maybe less money comes into armenia than azerbaijan, the money in armenia is more accurately distributed as opposed to that of azerbaijan, where it never leaves baku..

if you still don't understand what i said, and still want to debate that azerbaijan is the next dubai or what ever, keep in mind, that most analysts have discovered that azerbaijan will begin to run out of oil in 2012, and this, coupled with dutch desease that is rampant in azerbaijan (this means that azerbaijan's economy is centred only on natural resources-oil- other industries decay) will mean economic collapse for azerbaijan within 15 years.
and if azerbaijan feels they want to start a war before that, a few artillery shots on their precious pipeline will destroy their economy anyways.

[KHAZARI]

i'm not sure where you get this information from, since, i usually check both armenian and azeri news networks, and i never heard of 15 armenians dying in one day.
infact, the most i heard was 8 azeris dying in february (well the azeris say 8 the armenians say 10). there are always small skirmishes on the border but that has been going on for years now.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=d5kgH38G7tc
http://youtube.com/watch?v=B4HT7nhbD_w

why would the armenians want another war? we have what we wanted, we liberated [part of] the lands where our people had lived for at least 2 thousand years. if you really listen to news, you should know that it is not us, but aliyev who insinuates war at every turn:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=pjkJ36f8WGs
see, the president of azerbaijan even claims he wants to invade yerevan.
also, this is puure myth, and i will explain why it is so extravagant. first off, the only deals between armenia and iran are on a hydro dam, and a gas pipeline, as well as some trade. nothing more, there is no military, alliance, or otherwise. armenia first off, would never accept weaponry or military support from iran because it is an enemy of the united states, and armenia needs to be on the US's good side to gain financial backing for civilian projects, second, iran would never arm armenia: imagine the ISLAMIC republic of iran arming the first christian state against a muslim country that iran considers to be part of it anyways. plus, iran has some 15 million azeris in it's borders, which they do not really care to upset.

also, my uncle's house is right on the highway that goes from yerevan to the iranian border, and trust me, you don't see any tanks, or missles with iranian flags coming up or down..
i'm not sure why you are so insistant that we are the agressors,..why would we want to start a new war?
actually this is quite untrue: evidently, armenia is not as wealthy as france, but how ever, it has put in place many proper privitisation efforts, free trade agreements, and has considerably cut down on corruption. you must understand that in econimics, determining the economy of a country by GDP is quite misleading, thus some countries like sudan have some of the worlds highest economies, even though virtually all of it's population lives under the poverty line. thus petrol grosses the GDP of a country, but in reality means nothing.

it would be more interesting too look at things such as pop. below the poverty line, where armenia has 23% for azerbaijan's 51%, or the unimployement rate, or the inflation rate: armenia has 2.5% inflation, for azerbaijan's 10% (to compare, canada has a 2 percent)

also, you should like to compare that armenia's human rights, personal freedoms, and economic freedom are way higher than azerbaijans. (armenia ranks 4th in the ex-soviet union, after the 3 baltic states) and ranks in the top 40 in the world.

thus, maybe less money comes into armenia than azerbaijan, the money in armenia is more accurately distributed as opposed to that of azerbaijan, where it never leaves baku..

if you still don't understand what i said, and still want to debate that azerbaijan is the next dubai or what ever, keep in mind, that most analysts have discovered that azerbaijan will begin to run out of oil in 2012, and this, coupled with dutch desease that is rampant in azerbaijan (this means that azerbaijan's economy is centred only on natural resources-oil- other industries decay) will mean economic collapse for azerbaijan within 15 years.
and if azerbaijan feels they want to start a war before that, a few artillery shots on their precious pipeline will destroy their economy anyways.

well hosank the reality is far from what who you say...
first to all i heare about the fighting shooting in israeli news one or 2 month ago and in israeli news they said who 15 armenians are killed and 2 azeris.anyway in the last years many israeli businessman have projects in azerbaycan ..many israeli companies open branchs in azerbaycan. in israel have a large community of people from azerbaycan mostly "mountain jews"-jews from azerbaycan and some thousands of shiite muslims azeri people. i have azeri friend and him told me who now the economy situation in azerbaycan is much better many israeli companies want hebrew speaking workers more and more azeri people go back to azerbaycan from israel. i know many azeri who left back to azerbaycan....this really weird hosank...the israeli news tell us very different things from what who you say. i dont think who thousands of people will left good life in israel for poor life in azerbaycan. thier economy grown. and they have oil for many years. you are not objective hosank.

every year many armenians left thier country to america europe and even turkiye for find normal jobs

armenian population every year is becoming smaller... you canot debate with this fact my friend...

peace

[Hosank]

you are not objective hosank.

coming from the guy who claims to be on the side of human rights and peace and cooperation between peoples, while trying to portray the war in artsax as unjustifiable mass murder against your 'turkic brothers', i really do not take this accusation seriously.

now, unlike you, i am debating facts, now what i think i may remember from TV or something.
first off keep in mind that the isreali media is not exactly known for being unbias, and second, they were not even there, so any information you get on isreali tv, is second hand. also, as you just mentionned below, israel has some investments in azerbaijan, and thus they do not want to, as they say "piss them off". keep in mind that israel sees turkey as it's only secular ally in a region that hates them, and thus any friend of turkey is a friend of azerbaijan, also israel sells some weapons systems to azerbaijan, they want to make it look like they are being used well.

http://en.apa.az/category.php?id=3&show=4

point being even azeri news never claim such exagerations, why should we believe israeli news? and anyways, what is 15 dead? 15 dead in a year maybe..and in the end what does it change, there are a hundred thousand more waiting.

have projects in azerbaycan ..many israeli companies open branchs in azerbaycan.

yes, foreign companies invest in armenia too, and uzbekistan, and kazakhstan...an dwhat ever, what does that change? you cannot say that just because some israeli companies have branches in azerbaijan that azerbaijan is a rich and powerful state, how do you know that the money just doesn't go into the pockets of oligarchs?

n israel have a large community of people from azerbaycan mostly "mountain jews"-jews from azerbaycan

yes many mountain jews have fled azerbaijan, either for economic reasons, but also because of antisemetism (something the azeri government denies, but human right groups, and jewish organisations seem to imply)

i dont think who thousands of people will left good life in israel for poor life in azerbaycan.

so? many armenian diasporans have also returned to armenia, what does that mean? obviously their economy has grown, i mentionned that in my previous post. however, what you seem to stubborn to understand is that 'economy growing' is a very wide thing,..what segments of the economy, and who benefits from it, are questions that should be asked. the answer, is that only petrol related industry is flourishing, everything else is detirorating. i had an article about this, let me find it. and those who benefit are those whoa re friends with aliyev, everyone else are quite poor. and no, analysists have predicted that by 2012 azeri oil reserves will begin to deplete. already there is none left on the mainland, and they are drilling for it offshore.

armenian population every year is becoming smaller... you canot debate with this fact my friend...

actually, since 2007, the armenian population has begun to rise, mostly do to immigration by armenians from irak, or russia, iran and the rest of the diaspora but also due to a higher birth rate. so yes i can deny, because i search for articles instead of making blatant, unresearched statements.

[KHAZARI]

coming from the guy who claims to be on the side of human rights and peace and cooperation between peoples, while trying to portray the war in artsax as unjustifiable mass murder against your 'turkic brothers', i really do not take this accusation seriously.

now, unlike you, i am debating facts, now what i think i may remember from TV or something.
first off keep in mind that the isreali media is not exactly known for being unbias, and second, they were not even there, so any information you get on isreali tv, is second hand. also, as you just mentionned below, israel has some investments in azerbaijan, and thus they do not want to, as they say "piss them off". keep in mind that israel sees turkey as it's only secular ally in a region that hates them, and thus any friend of turkey is a friend of azerbaijan, also israel sells some weapons systems to azerbaijan, they want to make it look like they are being used well.

http://en.apa.az/category.php?id=3&show=4

point being even azeri news never claim such exagerations, why should we believe israeli news? and anyways, what is 15 dead? 15 dead in a year maybe..and in the end what does it change, there are a hundred thousand more waiting.
yes, foreign companies invest in armenia too, and uzbekistan, and kazakhstan...an dwhat ever, what does that change? you cannot say that just because some israeli companies have branches in azerbaijan that azerbaijan is a rich and powerful state, how do you know that the money just doesn't go into the pockets of oligarchs?
yes many mountain jews have fled azerbaijan, either for economic reasons, but also because of antisemetism (something the azeri government denies, but human right groups, and jewish organisations seem to imply)
so? many armenian diasporans have also returned to armenia, what does that mean? obviously their economy has grown, i mentionned that in my previous post. however, what you seem to stubborn to understand is that 'economy growing' is a very wide thing,..what segments of the economy, and who benefits from it, are questions that should be asked. the answer, is that only petrol related industry is flourishing, everything else is detirorating. i had an article about this, let me find it. and those who benefit are those whoa re friends with aliyev, everyone else are quite poor. and no, analysists have predicted that by 2012 azeri oil reserves will begin to deplete. already there is none left on the mainland, and they are drilling for it offshore.
actually, since 2007, the armenian population has begun to rise, mostly do to immigration by armenians from irak, or russia, iran and the rest of the diaspora but also due to a higher birth rate. so yes i can deny, because i search for articles instead of making blatant, unresearched statements.

well hosank

you always try to distribute your silly propaganda against turks and now you angry lol.so now, tell me what realy happend in karabakh? i want to know.

very interesting. mordoth in turkiye and him also heare same thing like me

these mountain jews are from khazar origin.i know many of these people .but after many years of work of jewish organization from usa europe and israel today most of they dont know anything about that and thinking who they are jews. but some of the still know this fact and one of they once tell me who him belive who they are descendeds of the ancient khazars. my cousin get marriage with mountain jew girl they speak turkish as a well and they good people. anyway not have any antisemitic in azerbaycan not against the mountain azeri jews and even no against ashkenazi european jews. they left azerbaycan only because the war and the economic situation. many of the mountain jews killed in this war hosank this what who im heare from some of these people.

not only israeli have a business in azerbaycan but from all over the world people interesting in this country.
about the program in the israeli tv this was expert from tel aviv university. and him give a detailed review about two these countries.

hosank i not have any hate against anybody in the world.contrary to you who thinking who im inferior to you only because who im turk

have a good day hosni boy

[veritas]

i understand what ur saying up at the top, but the bolded part u got sloppy bro, b/c the same can be said about the Assyrian genocide, and how its not recognized internationally...when well...it happened

I hear you man, but what i meant was after the shooting had happened the crime of armenia was not waiting long enough for people to use the corridor provided.

Many Azeri's said they were contacted by the armenian forces and told to get out and use the corridor provided, but there is evidence to suggest that they were not allowed to.

the treatment of Assyrians will eventualy be recognised, though unfortunatley the same event is overshadowed by the larger numbers of Armenians that died which should be a crime in itself.

America is under HUGE pressure to admit what happened, and when they do ( not if....when) there will be enough to go around for Assyria as well.

[Hosank]

Many Azeri's said they were contacted by the armenian forces and told to get out and use the corridor provided, but there is evidence to suggest that they were not allowed to.

yes there have been many instances where azeri soldiers used them as human shields or would provoque armenian troops to fire in the darkness. infact this is what lead to the deposition of the azeri president in 1994

khazari, i don't know what mountain jews you are talking about, because they don't speak turkish as a first language (of course they speak azeri turkish, but so did the armenians living in soviet azerbaijan) tey speak a language related to Tat, which is a persian language. they are not turks, since most of them imigrated east from israel, and then north through persia.

i don't know how it would have been possible for such a high number of jews to die in the war, since most of them live in the vicinity of the caspian sea (hense the alternative name 'caspian jews')

In terms of ethnic origin, it is assumed that the Jews and Tats have inhabited Caucasia for a long time. Their distant forefathers once lived in southwest Persia, the south-western part of present-day Iran. It was there that they adopted the Middle Persian language. The predecessors of the Mountain Jews settled in Caucasian Albania in the 5th–6th century and from that time on their history has been related to the mountains and the people of Azerbaijan and Dagestan. Their tradition says that they lived in the eastern Caucasus since 722 BCE

very interesting. mordoth in turkiye and him also heare same thing like me

lol if mordoth the turko-fascist living in the post-military state of turkey hurd the same thing, then IT MUST BE TRUE.

ell me what realy happend in karabakh? i want to know.

if you want to know...scroll up, it's all posted on the azerbaijan and armenia pages. read all you want, there are all kinds of articles, and then make your own opinion about the war, because you have asked me this question a hundred times, and i have answered a hundred times.

antisemetism in azerbaijan:

Jewish emigration from Azerbaijan increased during the Nagorno-Karabakh War: Jews feared both becoming casualties of war and becoming the targets of hostility that had previously been directed at Armenians.[14] The Lawyers Committee for Human Rights and the Canadian Documentation Centre note that Jews, as well as Armenians, were targets of violence and verbal abuse during the Sumgait and Baku pogroms in 1988 and 1990.[15]
During the last decades different attacks against individual Jews or Jewish communal took place. Refugees reported that emigrating Jews often are the target of militia groups.[16]
The former Interior Minister of Azerbaijan (1992−93) and later a political prisoner Isgandar Hamidov, now chairman of the unregistered National Democratic Party (Boz Gurd), made antisemitic and anti-Israel statements. According to The Stephen Roth Institute, Tel Aviv University report, Hamidov accused the Jews "of owning all the land in northern Azerbaijan, of trying to get hold of other assets and of acting as if they owned the world".[17]

The Islamic Party of Azerbaijan, whose official status as a party was revoked in 1995, routinely disseminates antisemitic messages through their newspapers and radio channels, with statements such as "Throw the Jews out!" and "Jews should go where they belong or be destroyed."[18]

In February 1995, in Baku, a gang of young Azeris attacked a 30-year old Jewish man Alexander Taranov. A man stopped Taranov in the subway, harassed him there, and then grabbed him at the subway exit and loudly announced that Taranov had a Talmud and a bomb in his briefcase. People surrounded Taranov and began to beat him shouting "Zionist-terrorist!" They brought him to the police branch where he was interrogated and ridiculed for 3 hours.[19]

The Israeli Government "Report of Anti-Semitic Incidents" notes that in October, 1998, the Ashkenazi synagogue in Baku was desecrated: "garbage was spilled near the synagogue and faeces was smeared on the front door"[20].

A month later, a synagogue of the Mountain Jews in Baku was also smeared with feces. The attack happened on a Friday night so people who came to the synagogue for Saturday morning prayer found a depressing picture. According to the UCSJ Special Report, this desecration is likely "a consequence of the fact that on November 16, 1998, during a meeting with President Heidar Aliev, the chairman of the synagogue of the Mountain Jews reported that during anti-Armenian pogroms in Baku, the Jewish community hid Armenians"[21].

According to the Radio Liberty report, in October, 2001 fifty gravestones in a Jewish cemetery were desecrated in Baku. The leader of the Religious Community of Mountain Jews of Azerbaijan, Semyon Ikhilov, was quoted by Radio Liberty as saying that this is not the first time such an attack has taken place. The government of Azerbaijan has recently warned of the threat of rising Islamic extremism to Jewish and minority Christian groups and has closed some mosques connected with radical Islamism.[22][23]

even armenians have not done this, and we don't pretend to be an ally of israel.

not only israeli have a business in azerbaycan but from all over the world people interesting in this country.

yes congratulations, they are interested in baku's limited supply of oil. but again, it seems to me that you have absolutely no grasp in macroeconomics. you must understand that GDP means absolutely nothing, what counts is a diversified economy. an economy run only on a natural resource is bound to fall...especially due to speculation that oil will run out within another 30 or so years in the world. this collapse can come even sooner if azerbaijan declares war on armenia, because that will completely halt any investment in the country (considering that the pipeline passes so close to the war zone).

i really don't know how to explain this to you any better, i mean, talking with you is like playing tennis with a wall...no matter where i hit the ball, it will come back in the exact same place...

[KHAZARI]

yes there have been many instances where azeri soldiers used them as human shields or would provoque armenian troops to fire in the darkness. infact this is what lead to the deposition of the azeri president in 1994

khazari, i don't know what mountain jews you are talking about, because they don't speak turkish as a first language (of course they speak azeri turkish, but so did the armenians living in soviet azerbaijan) tey speak a language related to Tat, which is a persian language. they are not turks, since most of them imigrated east from israel, and then north through persia.

i don't know how it would have been possible for such a high number of jews to die in the war, since most of them live in the vicinity of the caspian sea (hense the alternative name 'caspian jews')
lol if mordoth the turko-fascist living in the post-military state of turkey hurd the same thing, then IT MUST BE TRUE.
if you want to know...scroll up, it's all posted on the azerbaijan and armenia pages. read all you want, there are all kinds of articles, and then make your own opinion about the war, because you have asked me this question a hundred times, and i have answered a hundred times.

antisemetism in azerbaijan:
even armenians have not done this, and we don't pretend to be an ally of israel.
yes congratulations, they are interested in baku's limited supply of oil. but again, it seems to me that you have absolutely no grasp in macroeconomics. you must understand that GDP means absolutely nothing, what counts is a diversified economy. an economy run only on a natural resource is bound to fall...especially due to speculation that oil will run out within another 30 or so years in the world. this collapse can come even sooner if azerbaijan declares war on armenia, because that will completely halt any investment in the country (considering that the pipeline passes so close to the war zone).

i really don't know how to explain this to you any better, i mean, talking with you is like playing tennis with a wall...no matter where i hit the ball, it will come back in the exact same place...

yes the mountain jews are from khazar origin but probably they mixed up with some persian jews i konw that they not pure like us. but many of they still look like who we do look. this no matter azeri or turkish this turk language and this all.some of they know anything about the khazars and i meet even one who call himself turk.probably you never see one of these people ...i know many of they read about something in books this not same like in the real life.in azerbaycan living today 24000 jews one of these in the azeri parliament. all the jews from azerbaycan here talk only good things about the muslims azeri people.i know here also some muslims azeri people.not have antisemitic in azerbaycan hosank.

you can continue with your hate speech....

good luck boody

[Hosank]

how can you possibly consider anything i have said thus far as hate speech?

second, you are increadibly stubborn, i showed you an article stating that they are from persia, and you go on and tell me that some illusive friends of yours say they are khazaris, even though you show me no documented evidence of migration of khazari jews into azerbaijan, or any genetic proof that these jews are khazari.

and i don't care how many books you read as long as they don't have a name and author state..because you know, i read many science fiction books, and having said that, i tell you that khazaris are not mountain jews and vice versa.

[KHAZARI]

how can you possibly consider anything i have said thus far as hate speech?

second, you are increadibly stubborn, i showed you an article stating that they are from persia, and you go on and tell me that some illusive friends of yours say they are khazaris, even though you show me no documented evidence of migration of khazari jews into azerbaijan, or any genetic proof that these jews are khazari.

and i don't care how many books you read as long as they don't have a name and author state..because you know, i read many science fiction books, and having said that, i tell you that khazaris are not mountain jews and vice versa.

well these books in hebrew i dont think who have so much information about these people in other language. hosank, i have very much knowledge about the khazar people. im not trying to learn you armenian history so dont try teach my khazar history. the khazar was in the past one of the bigger and stronger turk nation in the earth. where disappear many milions of khazars?

the khazar turks is phenomenon one nation with many religion missionary from many religios was active in khazar empire everyboday want who the khazars convert to their religion. because the power of the khazar satate. because this was in khazar people jews(religionaly)muslims, christians, zaratosraists, and some left pagans. after collapse khazar empire the muslims khazars assimilate into northen caucasus people also to non-turks.in the south many christians khazars assymilate into christins caucasians
i have a good reason belive who also the azeri people have some khazar origin. the caspian sea still call "khazar sea" in arabic-al bakhar al khazari .in turkish-hazar deniz. and in persian- darya -ye khazar.
in north azerbaycan have city who call khazar, the name khazar common in azerbaycan the spokesman of foreign minister of azerbaycan call khazar ibrahim and have some azeri singer with family name khazar. these mountain jews not are pure khazars i never said that but they are admixture of persian jews and khazars but this seem who the khazar admixture more dominant than the jewish.other assymilate into byzantians christians mostly to anatolia.

i know many things about khazars my friend and i know who also you armenians keep some khazar admixture . . you are not pure ok?. you mixed with many nation also with khazars. not have pure nation in this world.

ma3asalama

[Hosank]

khazari, i think you grosely overestimate the importance of your people in caucasian culture. you seem to portray the khazar khanate as some sort of a huge powerful and influencial empire, somewhat like byzantium that completely shaped the future of the region.

however, khazaria only existed independantly for not more than 300 years, now in a region that has been inhabitated for at least 15 thousand years, that is a blink of an eye.

yes, it is true that turkic peoples around the caspian call it the khazar sea (such as the azeris)...what do you want me to answer..good for you? you have a sea named after your people (albeit only by other turkic tribes)

first off, few, if any khazars ever ventured into armenia. armenian records mention khazaria as some far away place with which they had little contact. yet even if there were, they would never have been enough to alter the entire foundation of a people like the armenians. so it would be lunacy to try and defend a theory in which armenians are actually related/descendants of khazaris.

also, you don't understand what makes a people. you claim that the mountain jews are khazaris, (with some mixing with persian jews) and etc. however, you must understand that the mountain jews, not only speak a persian language but keep persian traditions and so on, thus, if there ever was assimilation between one group or another (which there probably was), clearly the dominant group would be the persian groups, since the modern mountain jews don't speak khazari, but persian.

infact, don't take my word for it, listen to the experts:

Others have claimed Khazar origins for such groups as the Karaim, Krymchaks, Mountain Jews, and Georgian Jews. There is little evidence to support any of these theories, although it is possible that some Khazar descendants found their way into these communities. Non-Jewish groups who claim at least partial descent from the Khazars include the Kumyks and Crimean Tatars; as with the above-mentioned Jewish groups, these claims are subject to a great deal of controversy and debate.

my point is to say that there were never enough khazars to influence the genetic makeup of the [south] caucasus (georgia and armenia) and even azeri jews anyways

infact, i don't even know how you consider yourself a khazari at all, considering khazars don't exist anymore anyways:

Between 965 and 969, their sovereignty was broken by Sviatoslav I of Kiev, and they became a subject people of Kievan Rus'. Gradually displaced by the Rus, the Kipchaks, and later the conquering Mongol Golden Horde, the Khazars largely disappeared as a culturally-distinct people.

[KHAZARI]

khazari, i think you grosely overestimate the importance of your people in caucasian culture. you seem to portray the khazar khanate as some sort of a huge powerful and influencial empire, somewhat like byzantium that completely shaped the future of the region.

however, khazaria only existed independantly for not more than 300 years, now in a region that has been inhabitated for at least 15 thousand years, that is a blink of an eye.

yes, it is true that turkic peoples around the caspian call it the khazar sea (such as the azeris)...what do you want me to answer..good for you? you have a sea named after your people (albeit only by other turkic tribes)

first off, few, if any khazars ever ventured into armenia. armenian records mention khazaria as some far away place with which they had little contact. yet even if there were, they would never have been enough to alter the entire foundation of a people like the armenians. so it would be lunacy to try and defend a theory in which armenians are actually related/descendants of khazaris.

also, you don't understand what makes a people. you claim that the mountain jews are khazaris, (with some mixing with persian jews) and etc. however, you must understand that the mountain jews, not only speak a persian language but keep persian traditions and so on, thus, if there ever was assimilation between one group or another (which there probably was), clearly the dominant group would be the persian groups, since the modern mountain jews don't speak khazari, but persian.

infact, don't take my word for it, listen to the experts:
my point is to say that there were never enough khazars to influence the genetic makeup of the [south] caucasus (georgia and armenia) and even azeri jews anyways

infact, i don't even know how you consider yourself a khazari at all, considering khazars don't exist anymore anyways:

first your quote is from the wikipedia. this not serious sources. in english have alot wrong information and propaganda about khazar turks and even about karay turks.

do you have cyrilic letter ? go to google and write krimski karaimov(sorry i not have cyrilic letter) and see yourself also try write khazar in russian and see yourself. this the best prove who i can give you. in hebrew this not will help you at all.(if you want so ok lol) but the serious sources this only in russian.

the khazar still in live my friend the culture tradition and language still existing. even who today our language have some words from arabic, persian, russian(from the last years) polish lithuanian. but we the most pure descended of khazar turks.

im said who also in ARABIC AND PERSIAN this still call khazar sea.

your hate talking not you.....

[Hosank]

actually, i referenced scholarly articles:
http://www.familytreedna.com/pdf/43026_Doron.pdf
http://www.khazaria.com/khazar-diaspora.html
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...756C0A9669C8B63



like this: кримски каряимов?

and there isn't alot more about khazars in russian i must point out:
Хаза́ры (араб. خزر‎‎ (хазар); греч. Χαζαροι (хазарой); ивр. כוזרים‎ (кузарим); др.-рус. козаре ; лат. Gazari, Cosri) — тюркоязычный кочевой народ. Стал известен в Восточном Предкавказье (равнинный Дагестан) вскоре после гуннского нашествия. Сформировался в результате взаимодействия трёх этнических компонентов: местного ираноязычного населения, а также пришлых угорских и тюркских племен.

Имя является самоназванием, его этимология до конца не ясна. По сообщениям средневекового географа и путешественника Истахри - "Хазар - имя климата" По одной из версий, происходит от тюркской основы kaz — обозначающей кочевание. Также высказаны предположения, что оно восходит:

* к тюркскому глаголу со значением «угнетать», «притеснять» (Л. Базен)
* к персидскому слову «хазар» — тысяча (А. П. Новосельцев).
* к чеченскому идиоматическому выражению «хаз аре» - буквально, «территория с благоприятным климатом».

Хазарским назывались Чёрное, реже Азовское моря (в тот период позиции хазар в Крыму были очень сильны).Также именем хазар в ближневосточных языках называется Каспийское море — см. Хазарское море. На суше название «Хазария» дольше всего сохранялось за Крымом (в византийских и итальянских источниках до XVI века).

По мнению некоторых исследователей (Б. Н. Заходер), хазарский этнос имел дуалистическую основу, объединяя два главных племени — белых и чёрных хазар (калис-хазары и кара-хазары). Сторонники другой точки зрения (М. И. Артамонов, А. П. Новосельцев) считают это деление не этническим, а социальным и указывают на более сложную организацию. В тесной связи с хазарским племенным союзом находились акациры, берсилы, савиры, баланджары и др. В дальнейшем они были частично ассимилированы. Наиболее близки к хазарам были берсилы, в паре с которыми они часто упоминаются в начальный период истории, а страна Берсилия выступает в источниках исходным пунктом, из которого начинается хазарская экспансия в Европе.
Хазарский каганат
Хазарский каганат
Дань славян хазарам, миниатюра в Радзивиловской летописи, XV век
Дань славян хазарам, миниатюра в Радзивиловской летописи, XV век

Относительно происхождения хазар и их прародины высказаны следующие гипотезы:

* Хазары являются потомками гуннского племени акацир, известного в Европе с V века (А. В. Гадло, О. Прицак).
* Хазары имеют уйгурское происхождение, от центрально-азиатского народа ко-са, упомянутого в китайских источниках. (Д. Данлоп).
* Хазары являются потомками эфталитов, мигрировавших на Кавказ из Хорасана (Восточный Иран) (Д. Людвиг).
* Хазары происходят от племенного союза, сформированного огурами, савирами и на завершающем этапе алтайскими тюрками. (П. Голден, М. И. Артамонов, А. П. Новосельцев).

Последняя точка зрения (в разных вариациях) занимает доминирующее положение в российской науке.

В средневековых генеалогических легендах хазары возводились к сыну Ноя Тогарме. В еврейской литературе они иногда назывались потомками колена Симеона.

До VII века хазары занимали подчинённое положение в сменявших друг друга кочевых империях. В 560-е гг. оказались в составе Тюркского каганата, после распада последнего в середине VII века создали собственное государство — Хазарский каганат (650—969), который стал одним из самых долговечных кочевых объединений в этом регионе.

Первоначально обитая в районе к северу от Дербента в пределах современного равнинного Дагестана, хазары стали расселяться в контролируемых регионах: в Крыму, на Дону и особенно в Нижнем Поволжье, куда в VIII веке была перенесена столица государства. Несколько групп хазар в результате неудачных войн против Ирана и Арабского халифата были насильно переселены в Закавказье. Позже хазарское происхождение имели многие высокопоставленные Гулямы Аббасидского халифата. Также известно о существовании хазарского гарнизона в Константинополе и хазарско-еврейской общины в Киеве (Урочище Козары существует в Киеве и по сей день). В первой половине IX века три хазарских рода, называемых кавары, из-за политических междоусобиц покинули страну и присоединились к венграм, вместе с которыми пришли в Паннонию и в дальнейшем ассимилировались.

О культуре хазар мало данных, так как пока не идентифицированы их археологические следы. Социальная организация в целом не отличалась от аналогичных этнополитических образований кочевников, но по мере становления государственности прогрессивно эволюционировала. Первоначально выборные правители уступили место наследственной династии каганов, которая, в свою очередь, сменилась диархией кагана и бека. К X веку от кочевого образа жизни хазары перешли к полукочевому, зимнее время проводя в городах. Религиозные верования состояли из общетюркских языческих ритуалов, характерной чертой которых было поклонение богу Тенгри и обожествление кагана. Благодаря географическому положению и веротерпимой политике правительства в хазарскую среду интенсивно проникали христианство и ислам. Часть хазар во главе с правящим родом перешла в иудаизм.

После падения Хазарского каганата во второй половине Х века, хазары растворились в среде тюркоязычных кочевых народов. Какая-то часть этнических хазар, исповедовавших иудаизм, по всей вероятности, влилась в состав центральноевропейских еврейских общин. Потомками хазар считают себя тюркские народности, исповедующие разновидности иудаизма: караимы, и др. Хазарские корни, возможно, имеют некоторые тюркоговорящие народы Северного Кавказа.

[KHAZARI]

actually, i referenced scholarly articles:
http://www.familytreedna.com/pdf/43026_Doron.pdf
http://www.khazaria.com/khazar-diaspora.html
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...756C0A9669C8B63
like this: кримски каряимов?

and there isn't alot more about khazars in russian i must point out:
Хаза́ры (араб. خزر‎‎ (хазар); греч. Χαζαροι (хазарой); ивр. כוזרים‎ (кузарим); др.-рус. козаре ; лат. Gazari, Cosri) — тюркоязычный кочевой народ. Стал известен в Восточном Предкавказье (равнинный Дагестан) вскоре после гуннского нашествия. Сформировался в результате взаимодействия трёх этнических компонентов: местного ираноязычного населения, а также пришлых угорских и тюркских племен.

Имя является самоназванием, его этимология до конца не ясна. По сообщениям средневекового географа и путешественника Истахри - "Хазар - имя климата" По одной из версий, происходит от тюркской основы kaz — обозначающей кочевание. Также высказаны предположения, что оно восходит:

* к тюркскому глаголу со значением «угнетать», «притеснять» (Л. Базен)
* к персидскому слову «хазар» — тысяча (А. П. Новосельцев).
* к чеченскому идиоматическому выражению «хаз аре» - буквально, «территория с благоприятным климатом».

Хазарским назывались Чёрное, реже Азовское моря (в тот период позиции хазар в Крыму были очень сильны).Также именем хазар в ближневосточных языках называется Каспийское море — см. Хазарское море. На суше название «Хазария» дольше всего сохранялось за Крымом (в византийских и итальянских источниках до XVI века).

По мнению некоторых исследователей (Б. Н. Заходер), хазарский этнос имел дуалистическую основу, объединяя два главных племени — белых и чёрных хазар (калис-хазары и кара-хазары). Сторонники другой точки зрения (М. И. Артамонов, А. П. Новосельцев) считают это деление не этническим, а социальным и указывают на более сложную организацию. В тесной связи с хазарским племенным союзом находились акациры, берсилы, савиры, баланджары и др. В дальнейшем они были частично ассимилированы. Наиболее близки к хазарам были берсилы, в паре с которыми они часто упоминаются в начальный период истории, а страна Берсилия выступает в источниках исходным пунктом, из которого начинается хазарская экспансия в Европе.
Хазарский каганат
Хазарский каганат
Дань славян хазарам, миниатюра в Радзивиловской летописи, XV век
Дань славян хазарам, миниатюра в Радзивиловской летописи, XV век

Относительно происхождения хазар и их прародины высказаны следующие гипотезы:

* Хазары являются потомками гуннского племени акацир, известного в Европе с V века (А. В. Гадло, О. Прицак).
* Хазары имеют уйгурское происхождение, от центрально-азиатского народа ко-са, упомянутого в китайских источниках. (Д. Данлоп).
* Хазары являются потомками эфталитов, мигрировавших на Кавказ из Хорасана (Восточный Иран) (Д. Людвиг).
* Хазары происходят от племенного союза, сформированного огурами, савирами и на завершающем этапе алтайскими тюрками. (П. Голден, М. И. Артамонов, А. П. Новосельцев).

Последняя точка зрения (в разных вариациях) занимает доминирующее положение в российской науке.

В средневековых генеалогических легендах хазары возводились к сыну Ноя Тогарме. В еврейской литературе они иногда назывались потомками колена Симеона.

До VII века хазары занимали подчинённое положение в сменявших друг друга кочевых империях. В 560-е гг. оказались в составе Тюркского каганата, после распада последнего в середине VII века создали собственное государство — Хазарский каганат (650—969), который стал одним из самых долговечных кочевых объединений в этом регионе.

Первоначально обитая в районе к северу от Дербента в пределах современного равнинного Дагестана, хазары стали расселяться в контролируемых регионах: в Крыму, на Дону и особенно в Нижнем Поволжье, куда в VIII веке была перенесена столица государства. Несколько групп хазар в результате неудачных войн против Ирана и Арабского халифата были насильно переселены в Закавказье. Позже хазарское происхождение имели многие высокопоставленные Гулямы Аббасидского халифата. Также известно о существовании хазарского гарнизона в Константинополе и хазарско-еврейской общины в Киеве (Урочище Козары существует в Киеве и по сей день). В первой половине IX века три хазарских рода, называемых кавары, из-за политических междоусобиц покинули страну и присоединились к венграм, вместе с которыми пришли в Паннонию и в дальнейшем ассимилировались.

О культуре хазар мало данных, так как пока не идентифицированы их археологические следы. Социальная организация в целом не отличалась от аналогичных этнополитических образований кочевников, но по мере становления государственности прогрессивно эволюционировала. Первоначально выборные правители уступили место наследственной династии каганов, которая, в свою очередь, сменилась диархией кагана и бека. К X веку от кочевого образа жизни хазары перешли к полукочевому, зимнее время проводя в городах. Религиозные верования состояли из общетюркских языческих ритуалов, характерной чертой которых было поклонение богу Тенгри и обожествление кагана. Благодаря географическому положению и веротерпимой политике правительства в хазарскую среду интенсивно проникали христианство и ислам. Часть хазар во главе с правящим родом перешла в иудаизм.

После падения Хазарского каганата во второй половине Х века, хазары растворились в среде тюркоязычных кочевых народов. Какая-то часть этнических хазар, исповедовавших иудаизм, по всей вероятности, влилась в состав центральноевропейских еврейских общин. Потомками хазар считают себя тюркские народности, исповедующие разновидности иудаизма: караимы, и др. Хазарские корни, возможно, имеют некоторые тюркоговорящие народы Северного Кавказа.

well hosank actually i dont know speak russian my family in the last 150 years are from istanbul....you could pleas translate this article?

thanks

[Hosank]

Hazara (Arabic خزر (Khazars); Greek. Χαζαροι (Hazara); Hebrew. כוזרים (kuzarim); others-rus. Kozare; lat. Gazari, Cosri) - Turkic-speaking nomadic people. Became known in East Predkavkaze (flat Dagestan) gunnskogo shortly after the invasion. Formed by the interaction of three ethnic components: iranoyazychnogo local population, as well as aliens Ugric and Turkic tribes.

The name is self, its etymology is not clear. According to the medieval traveler and geographer Istahri - Khazar - addressed climate "According to one version, comes from Turkish bases kaz - showing kochevanie. It also suggested that it goes back:

* To the Turkic verb with a value of "oppress", "harass" (L. Bazen)
* To the Persian word "Khazars" - a thousand (AP Novoseltsev).
* To the Chechen idiomaticheskomu expression "haz arena" - literally, "territory with a favourable climate".

Khazar called Black, less Azov Sea (at that time position Khazars in the Crimea were very strong). Also named Khazars in Middle Eastern languages called Caspian Sea - see Hazarskoe sea. On land the title "Hazariya" persisted for longer than the entire Crimea (in the Byzantine and Italian sources before the XVI century).

According to some researchers (BN Zahoder), hazarsky ethnicity had dualistic basis, bringing together the two main tribe - white and black Khazars (kalis-Hazaras and kara-Hazaras). Supporters of another point of view (MI Artamonov, AP Novoseltsev) believe this is not ethnic divisions, and social and suggest a more complex organization. In close connection with hazarskim tribal Union were akatsiry, bersily, saviry, balandzhary, etc. In the future, they have been partly assimilated. Most are close to the Hazaras were bersily, paired with which they are often mentioned in the initial period of history, and the country Bersiliya sources serves as a point from which begins hazarskaya expansion in Europe.
Khazar Kaganate
Khazar Kaganate
Tribute Slavs Hazara, in miniature Radzivilovskoy chronicle, XV century
Tribute Slavs Hazara, in miniature Radzivilovskoy chronicle, XV century

Regarding the origin Khazars and their prarodiny made the following hypotheses:

* Hazara tribe are descendants gunnskogo akatsir known in Europe with the V century (AV Gadlo, O. Pritsak).
* Hazara have Uyghur origin, from the Central Asian nation to self-referred to in Chinese sources. (D. Dunlop).
* Hazara are descendants eftalitov who had migrated to the Caucasus from Khorasan (East Iran) (D. Ludwig).
* Occur from the Hazara tribe Union, formed ogurami, savirami and at the end of the Altaic Turks. (P. Golden, MI Artamonov, AP Novoseltsev).

The latter point of view (in different variations) took a dominant position in Russian science.

In medieval legends genealogical Hazaras built to son Noah Togarme. In Jewish literature, they are sometimes called the descendants of Simeon knee.

Before VII century Hazaras subordinated to each other in successive nomadic empire. In 560 - ies. were composed of Turkic Kaganate, after the collapse of the VII in the middle of last century to create their own state - Khazar Kaganate (650-969), which has become one of the most durable nomadic groups in the region.

Originally shingle in the area north of Derbent in Dagestan modern plain, Hazaras have resettle in controlled regions: in the Crimea, on the Don and especially in the Lower Volga region, where in the VIII century capital of the State was postponed. Several groups Khazars as a result of unsuccessful wars against Iran and the Arab caliphate were forcibly resettled in the Transcaucasus. Later hazarskoe origin had many high-ranking Gulyamy Abbasidskogo caliphate. Also aware of the existence of hazarskogo garrison in Constantinople and hazarsko-Jewish community in Kiev (Urochische Kozary exists in Kiev and to this day). In the first half-century IX three hazarskih kind, called kavary, because of political strife have left the country and joined the Hungarians, with whom came to Pannoniyu and further assimilated.

On culture Khazars little data, because they have not yet identified archaeological traces. Social organization as a whole is not different from similar ethno-political entities nomads, but as statehood progressively evolved. Originally elected rulers have given way to kaganov hereditary dynasty, which, in turn, replaced DiArchy Khagans and bey. By the X century from nomadic life Hazaras moved to semi, making winter in the cities. Religious beliefs consisted of obschetyurkskih pagan rituals, a feature which was the worship of the god Tengri and deification Khagans. Thanks to geography and tolerant policies of the Government in hazarskuyu Wednesday intensively infiltrated Christianity and Islam. Part Khazars, led by the ruling originally passed in Judaism.

After the fall of Khazar Kaganate H in the second half-century, Hazaras solution among the nomadic Turkic peoples. Some of the ethnic Khazars, to practise Judaism, in all likelihood, joined in the Central European Jewish communities. Khazars consider themselves descendants of Turkic peoples professing variety of Judaism: Karaites, and others Hazarskie roots may have some tyurkogovoryaschie peoples of the North Caucasus.

[KHAZARI]

Hazara (Arabic خزر (Khazars); Greek. Χαζαροι (Hazara); Hebrew. כוזרים (kuzarim); others-rus. Kozare; lat. Gazari, Cosri) - Turkic-speaking nomadic people. Became known in East Predkavkaze (flat Dagestan) gunnskogo shortly after the invasion. Formed by the interaction of three ethnic components: iranoyazychnogo local population, as well as aliens Ugric and Turkic tribes.

The name is self, its etymology is not clear. According to the medieval traveler and geographer Istahri - Khazar - addressed climate "According to one version, comes from Turkish bases kaz - showing kochevanie. It also suggested that it goes back:

* To the Turkic verb with a value of "oppress", "harass" (L. Bazen)
* To the Persian word "Khazars" - a thousand (AP Novoseltsev).
* To the Chechen idiomaticheskomu expression "haz arena" - literally, "territory with a favourable climate".

Khazar called Black, less Azov Sea (at that time position Khazars in the Crimea were very strong). Also named Khazars in Middle Eastern languages called Caspian Sea - see Hazarskoe sea. On land the title "Hazariya" persisted for longer than the entire Crimea (in the Byzantine and Italian sources before the XVI century).

According to some researchers (BN Zahoder), hazarsky ethnicity had dualistic basis, bringing together the two main tribe - white and black Khazars (kalis-Hazaras and kara-Hazaras). Supporters of another point of view (MI Artamonov, AP Novoseltsev) believe this is not ethnic divisions, and social and suggest a more complex organization. In close connection with hazarskim tribal Union were akatsiry, bersily, saviry, balandzhary, etc. In the future, they have been partly assimilated. Most are close to the Hazaras were bersily, paired with which they are often mentioned in the initial period of history, and the country Bersiliya sources serves as a point from which begins hazarskaya expansion in Europe.
Khazar Kaganate
Khazar Kaganate
Tribute Slavs Hazara, in miniature Radzivilovskoy chronicle, XV century
Tribute Slavs Hazara, in miniature Radzivilovskoy chronicle, XV century

Regarding the origin Khazars and their prarodiny made the following hypotheses:

* Hazara tribe are descendants gunnskogo akatsir known in Europe with the V century (AV Gadlo, O. Pritsak).
* Hazara have Uyghur origin, from the Central Asian nation to self-referred to in Chinese sources. (D. Dunlop).
* Hazara are descendants eftalitov who had migrated to the Caucasus from Khorasan (East Iran) (D. Ludwig).
* Occur from the Hazara tribe Union, formed ogurami, savirami and at the end of the Altaic Turks. (P. Golden, MI Artamonov, AP Novoseltsev).

The latter point of view (in different variations) took a dominant position in Russian science.

In medieval legends genealogical Hazaras built to son Noah Togarme. In Jewish literature, they are sometimes called the descendants of Simeon knee.

Before VII century Hazaras subordinated to each other in successive nomadic empire. In 560 - ies. were composed of Turkic Kaganate, after the collapse of the VII in the middle of last century to create their own state - Khazar Kaganate (650-969), which has become one of the most durable nomadic groups in the region.

Originally shingle in the area north of Derbent in Dagestan modern plain, Hazaras have resettle in controlled regions: in the Crimea, on the Don and especially in the Lower Volga region, where in the VIII century capital of the State was postponed. Several groups Khazars as a result of unsuccessful wars against Iran and the Arab caliphate were forcibly resettled in the Transcaucasus. Later hazarskoe origin had many high-ranking Gulyamy Abbasidskogo caliphate. Also aware of the existence of hazarskogo garrison in Constantinople and hazarsko-Jewish community in Kiev (Urochische Kozary exists in Kiev and to this day). In the first half-century IX three hazarskih kind, called kavary, because of political strife have left the country and joined the Hungarians, with whom came to Pannoniyu and further assimilated.

On culture Khazars little data, because they have not yet identified archaeological traces. Social organization as a whole is not different from similar ethno-political entities nomads, but as statehood progressively evolved. Originally elected rulers have given way to kaganov hereditary dynasty, which, in turn, replaced DiArchy Khagans and bey. By the X century from nomadic life Hazaras moved to semi, making winter in the cities. Religious beliefs consisted of obschetyurkskih pagan rituals, a feature which was the worship of the god Tengri and deification Khagans. Thanks to geography and tolerant policies of the Government in hazarskuyu Wednesday intensively infiltrated Christianity and Islam. Part Khazars, led by the ruling originally passed in Judaism.

After the fall of Khazar Kaganate H in the second half-century, Hazaras solution among the nomadic Turkic peoples. Some of the ethnic Khazars, to practise Judaism, in all likelihood, joined in the Central European Jewish communities. Khazars consider themselves descendants of Turkic peoples professing variety of Judaism: Karaites, and others Hazarskie roots may have some tyurkogovoryaschie peoples of the North Caucasus.

thanks about the tranzlation my friend

very interesting.

btw we are not call hazara but khazars , hazara are totally different people in afghanistan we are have nothing to do with these people.the exsisting of khazar people in area of caucasus black sea and part of iran is over 2000 years (this by georgians and armenians sources). in khazar empire was many religions and all the religious and ethnic groups was same rights in khazar empire.the tolerance is part of our culture.many khazars was christians and many greeks have much khazar blood among they.many khazars was christians and was very strong ties with byzantium empire. but this not matter we are all human beings after all.

peace

[Hosank]

yes well many russians say hazara, but they are refering to the khazaris.

second, khazaria didn't last more than some 200 years, what 2000 years? find me any goergian and armenian sources that claim this.
also, khazaria was one the byzantium's enemies for a long time. alanya was used as a buffer between the two states.

also, why do you tell me to check out russian sources, if you yourself don't speak russiaN/

[KHAZARI]

yes well many russians say hazara, but they are refering to the khazaris.

second, khazaria didn't last more than some 200 years, what 2000 years? find me any goergian and armenian sources that claim this.
also, khazaria was one the byzantium's enemies for a long time. alanya was used as a buffer between the two states.

also, why do you tell me to check out russian sources, if you yourself don't speak russiaN/

no...khazaria exist as a empire 300 years but before this they also was live in this region but because who they not was strong and they was under control of other people like the huns and gokturk empires so they not call khazars but in the name of their masters.

actually no. the khazars was allies of bizantium empire against persian sasssanids. look this site.

http://www.geocities.com/egfroth1/Khazars

hosank..the information in english have alot propaganda against our khazars ancestors.

and btw the khazars are more famous in russia than in israel...most the people here dont know anything about the khazars but in the last years the interest in this topic grown in whole the world. the most rurieus scholars about this topic are the russians im was read translution of russians research about the karay and khazars. because this i say who try find information in russian because in english not have surious sources but propaganda.

[Hosank]

you don't think that white supremacist russian history books would be alitte prejudiced against khazaris?..or less than english sources?

and alliances shift all the time, but that does not make them historical allies.
but look, 200 years, 300 years, that still is not thousand of years. but the thing with turks is that when khazaris are under the control of tatars or mongolic peoples, they are with their own kin, so how do you know the khazars remained completely distinct from the other turkics..and how would you say they 'were' destinct in the first place?

and today there is no people walking around calling itself 'the khazari khanate' or what ever..so to me, they are extinct...certainly just because a people, or culture is extinct does not mean the people are...they may be descendants of the khazari..but they are not khazari themselves