Turkish Invasion Of Cyprus In 1974, Turks and Total massacre and plunder Options

[irlandahay]

only part I will never agree you is " WHY THE HELL THOSE EX PRIESTS ARE OUT ON THE STREETS" ......

Same reason Turkey wasnt punished for its crimes.

Good people do nothing about it.

[arrow]

Same reason Turkey wasnt punished for its crimes.

Good people do nothing about it.

Well if it comes to there, Ottoman empire is nomore and that is quite a punishment. I understand that you like to use Turkey instead of Ottoman empire but when it comes to documentation you must understand that Ottoman empire is not Turkiye Cumhuriyeti.

And yes, Ottoman empire is no more, all of her monetary debts from pre WW1 era and her war debts are paid and over. So , Ottoman empire got what she deserved, it is like a death sentence to a person and after the execution his belongings a divided to pieces.

ANd back to priests, according to Hosank, the Church is paying to clear its name but I don't blame the church even a bit. The person himself is responsible for his crimes not the organisation he is in. And I still believe they should be in jail with the rest of kid rapers.

[irlandahay]

Well if it comes to there, Ottoman empire is nomore and that is quite a punishment. I understand that you like to use Turkey instead of Ottoman empire but when it comes to documentation you must understand that Ottoman empire is not Turkiye Cumhuriyeti.

And yes, Ottoman empire is no more, all of her monetary debts from pre WW1 era and her war debts are paid and over. So , Ottoman empire got what she deserved, it is like a death sentence to a person and after the execution his belongings a divided to pieces.

ANd back to priests, according to Hosank, the Church is paying to clear its name but I don't blame the church even a bit. The person himself is responsible for his crimes not the organisation he is in. And I still believe they should be in jail with the rest of kid rapers.

The German state had to pay billions of dollars in reparations and had to entirely re do it's school educational system in order to destroy what was left of Hitler's youth.

I ask for no such reparations from Turkey, even tho they are WAY overdo. All I want (and I speak for only myself), I may seem to be a compulsive youngster who is blind by rage but I really am not. You cant judge character off a forum. All I want is for my ancestors memory to be respected. All I want is to know that they didnt die for nothing. I dont want money, or land or anything, just gravestones that marked where my ancestors fell, and no more turkish blind bafoons calling the victim the murderer.

Doesnt seem like too much to ask? An apology?

[arrow]

The German state had to pay billions of dollars in reparations and had to entirely re do it's school educational system in order to destroy what was left of Hitler's youth.

I ask for no such reparations from Turkey, even tho they are WAY overdo. All I want (and I speak for only myself), I may seem to be a compulsive youngster who is blind by rage but I really am not. You cant judge character off a forum. All I want is for my ancestors memory to be respected. All I want is to know that they didnt die for nothing. I dont want money, or land or anything, just gravestones that marked where my ancestors fell, and no more turkish blind bafoons calling the victim the murderer.

Doesnt seem like too much to ask? An apology?

Ok here is what I think. You know that I don't believe there was a genocide, it was more like a fight in the family. Your ancestors, Kurds and Turks were together in building the front state of Sogut into Ottoman empire. Specially Ermeni helped them becouse of the brutal rule of Tekfurs of Byzantine and the Mongol invasion of Selcuklu empire Osman and his tribe found many help from your ancestors.

Later, times changed and there was war. We killed each other. I don't know if it will be ok for you or not but you are alive and that means your people didn't die for nothing.

As for monetary compensation or an apoligy. Although I don't think that there is a need to do so, if anyone should apoligise it should be the members of Ottoman familiy living in France. They are dirty rich and very happy with their lives. Ottoman empire and Turkiye are different just as Ottoman Empire and Bulgaria or Greece is different. Bulgars nor Greeks nor the rest of the 80 + nations have anything to do with the debate.

And Irısh, as long as you respect your own elders and ancestors I believe it is more than enough for them.

[Hosank]

arrow, that's quite a distorted version of history.

obviously the byzantines were not always chivalrous towards the armenians, but i think that between you guys and the byzantines, the choice would be obvious.
however, armenians being the survivors that they are, survived the ottoman empire, just as they had survived, the arabs the persians, the meds and the Assyrians before. so obviously armenians moved to constantinople, became businessmen, accountants and what ever helped the get through. many did prosper, but it was not easy, the turks were not exactly welcoming them. and yes there was alot of animosity.
legal status was not amazing either (as you can see i am sugarcoating things, because as terrible as the armenian situation was during ottoman days it was not comparable to the horrors of 1915)
but armenians are armenians. they have the right, just like every other people subjected by the ottomans to their own freedom from opression.

then you say, one day we just decided to go to war with eachother? a war on equal terms? 2.5 million armenians against 30 million turks? i doubt it.

also, turks here always claime that the armenians had their own militias and so on. we know now, thanks to new discoveries in the ottoman archives, that all 3 major revolutionary parties, the armenakan, the Hunchaks and the Dashnaks had been more or less wiped of their leaders by the ottoman secret service by 1914 before the genocide. even the Armenian General Benevolant Union had been considered a terrorist organisation, all people on donors lists to this group were arrested, all people taken care of (orphanages, old people's homes and so on) were also arrested. all this...before the genocide.

now, yes, the armenians still had some fighters left. but you must understand what it was like. both turks and armenians alike seem to believe in various myths about the fedayiin warriors, for various patriotic reasons.

you see. these fedayiin local militias had been organised after the hamidian massacres of 1896. they were designed with being able to fight off small bands of turkish regulars, or kurdish raiders, as well as convicts. they were in no way designed to defend over long periods of time, a siege by a well equiped turkish army.

the armenians were beginning to be aware that something was being prepared against them. of course they had no idea of the scale of the genocide, but when they noticed their leaders being assassinated, they hinted that it may be something like the hamidian massacres of 20 years earlier . so they prepared for a defense against a disorganised massacre.

you must understand that the armenians knew that they didn't have enough men or weapons to defend all the armenian population. the decided that their best way was to ensure that a proportion of the population should manage to survive. sacrefice the fiew for the survival of the many. and that is what they were prepared to do, many desperate actions were infact taken during the genocide.

for instance, during the siege of van. the turkish soldiers, having failed to take the city, went around in the country side, burning armenian villages and murdering most of the civilians. they came back a week later to pick up the wounded and dying women and children. the forced them to walk across towards the defenders of van. and the armenian defenders shot them. horrid thing that we dirty armenians must have done right? ....well now lets see why.

the turks knew that the armenians in the wall were low on supply and they could not afford to feed desease infected and wounded civilians instead of fighting men. this would destroy the armenians from the inside. so they picked up the wounded women and children (having killed off the men anyways, and knowing that it would be even harder for armenians to live with their deaths of their concience) and sent them across. threatening to shoot them if they did not go. the armenians of course yelled at them to go back, those who did were shot by the turks. and those who didn't were unfortunately shot by the armenians.

why did the armenians shoot their own one would ask? the answer is simple. survival. they knew that accepting these people would mean certain death FOR ALL armenians living in van. it was one of the desperate choiced armenians had to make during the genocide.

all this to say that the armenian militias were not built to be equal to the turkish military units. the turks seem to believe in that myth because of the heroic acts done by these fedayiins, for example, holding off a larger and better equipped turkish army in Mussa Ler for over a month, defending xarpert, Van and so on with some success. this is why in turkish mythology, the armenian fedayiin were some sort of professional army bent on the destruction of everything turkish. this of course is untrue because for their few successes on the battlefield, they had many more defeats, but all in all it is thanks to them that at least some armenians have lived to this day.

so unlike the theories mordoth and prot may have on why the armenian people are not extinct, that it was because the turks pittied them, and didn't kill them, it is truly because the fedayiin, as unorganised, or unsucsessful as they were, managed to delay the genocide in some parts. however the organised killing of over 1.5 million armenians DID take place.

why would the armenians go after the ottoman family in france? since if i remember well, the sultan was deposted in 1903. when the secular and PAN-TURKIST CUP came to power. the direct predecessors of modern turkey. just as today germany pays the penalty for 3rd reich germany, which we can all agree apon, was not the same administration as present germany, the new administration of turkey should feel just as responsable.

[arrow]

Hosank, fedayi is also used for brave people and bodygurads in Turkish.

In WW1 Ottoman empire fought against the allied forces in Anatolia, Africa, Arabia, Balkans, Mid East and Russian Front. It was never Ermeni vs Ottomans but rather Russia + Ruski supported Ermeni vs Ottoman milita and reserve troops left for security of ther homeland. The reality of Van is, it was taken by Russian forces along with Kars and surrounding areas.

I never knew you killed your own, well it takes leaders to take drastic decisions in drastic times. God bless the souls of the civilians died in the conflict.

And about the history part, the date april 24th refers to the time when Ottoman police arrested the ermeni leaders in Istanbul. It is used by ermeni people as a reminder day of the people died in WW1 era. But the leaders were definatly replaced, it is the nature of organisations, they are not dependant on people, they always find replacements.

For example the nazi scum Dro was around during WW1. Hıncaks, Dasnaks were around long after WW1, etc.

And about war, it is never about equal forces nor honor. It is about who is strong and who is weak. You were strong with Ruski along you thus cleansed yerevan and surrounding areas of muslims, they left you and you lost in anatolia. This simple. I do not pity on those that die wielding a sword, rifle. I do however feel sad for those that perished while bullies around them shoot at each other.

Ps: The tribe of Sogut was build by the help of ermeni and kurds. this is an historical fact. But the city Istanbul was never "literraly built" by ermeni. ANd the admission of ermeni populations majority in to the city was as you stated 700 years ago by the Ottoman sultan's permission and reward for the bravey of the ermeni in sultan's army. You helped us conquer the city.

[Hosank]

fedayi is originally an arabic word to begin with. nevertheless, i am not trying to say that the word is armenian, i am saying that the armenian militias were (and still are today) dubbed as fedayiin, just as the german militias are friedkorps.

that was the only incident i can recall. but it was a must for the defenders to survive the turkish siege.

you speak of the people arrested as if they were statistics...not people. so let me show you their names then we will talk.

1. Komitas Vardapet Կոմիտաս Վարդապետ b. 1869, Kütahya Survivor Priest, composer, ethnomusicologist, founder of a number choirs [10] 24 April 1915 Çankırı Permitted to return to the capital by special telegramme from Talat Pasha on 7 May 1915 [11]. The eight prisoners of this group were notified on Sunday, 9 May 1915, about their release [12] and left Çankırı on 11 May 1915[13] - developed a severe form of Posttraumatic Stress Disorder and spent twenty years in virtual silence in mental asylums, died 1935 in Paris[12]
2. Vahram Torkomian Վահրամ Թորգոմեան
b. 1858 in Constantinople Survivor Physician [14], medical historian 24 April 1915 Çankırı Permitted to return to the capital by special telegramme from Talat Pasha on 7 May 1915 [11]. The eight prisoners of this group were notified on Sunday, 9 May 1915, about their release [12] and left Çankırı on 11 May 1915[13] . He moved to France in 1922 [15]. He published a book after the war (a list of Armenian doctors) in Evreux, France in 1922 and a study on Ethiopean Taenicide-Kosso [16] in Antwerp in 1929. [17]. He died 1942 in Paris [15].
3. Hagop Nargilejian
Յակոբ Նարկիլէճեան Survivor Pharmacist in the army [18] 24 April 1915 Çankırı Permitted to return to the capital by special telegramme from Talat Pasha on 7 May 1915 [11]. The eight prisoners of this group were notified on Sunday, 9 May 1915, about their release [12] and left Çankırı on 11 May 1915[13].
4. Garabet Keropian
Կարապետ Քերոբեան from Balıkesir [19] Survivor Pastor [20] 24 April 1915 Çankırı Permitted to return to the capital by special telegramme from Talat Pasha on 7 May 1915 [11]. The eight prisoners of this group were notified on Sunday, 9 May 1915, about their release [12] and left Çankırı on 11 May 1915[13] . He went to America. [19]
5. Zareh Bardizbanian
Զարեհ Պարտիզպանեան Dentist 24 April 1915 Çankırı Permitted to return to the capital by special telegramme from Talat Pasha on 7 May 1915 [11]. The eight prisoners of this group were notified on Sunday, 9 May 1915, about their release [12] and left Çankırı on 11 May 1915[13].
6. Piuzant Kechian
Բիւզանդ Քէչեան b. 1859 Survivor Editor, newspaper owner, historian 24 April 1915 Çankırı Permitted to return to the capital by special telegramme from Talat Pasha on 7 May 1915 [11].The eight prisoners of this group were notified on Sunday, 9 May 1915, about their release [12] and left Çankırı on 11 May 1915[13]. Returned to Constantinople on the 1st of May 1915 [old calendar?] and stayed in Plovdiv, Bulgaria, until the end of the war[21], died in 1927 [15] or 1928 [18].
7. Yervant Tolayan
Երվանդ Թօլայեան b. 1883 Survivor Theater director, playwright 24 April 1915 Çankırı Permitted to return to the capital by special telegramme from Talat Pasha on 7 May 1915 [11] [22]. The eight prisoners of this group were notified on Sunday, 9 May 1915, about their release [12] and left Çankırı on 11 May 1915[13] . Yervant Tolaian died in 1937.[15]
8. Rafael Karagözian Survivor ? 24 April 1915 Çankırı Permitted to return to the capital by a telegramme from Talat Pasha on 7 May 1915 [11].
9. Sarkis Shahinian Survivor ? 24 April 1915 Çankırı "Pardoned on condition on not returning to İstanbul" according to a telegramme from the Ministry of the Interior on 25 August 1915 on the subject of exiles erroneously unlisted in a former 3 August telegramme [23].
10. Hovhannes Hanisian Survivor ? 24 April 1915 Çankırı "Pardoned on condition on not returning to İstanbul" according to a telegramme from the Ministry of the Interior on 25 August 1915 on the subject of exiles erroneously unlisted in a former 3 August telegramme [23].
11. Artin Boghosian
Արթին Պօղոսեան Survivor ? 24 April 1915 Çankırı "Pardoned on condition on not returning to İstanbul" according to a telegramme from the Ministry of the Interior on 25 August 1915 on the subject of exiles erroneously unlisted in a former 3 August telegramme [23].
12. Baghdasar Serkisian Survivor ? 24 April 1915 Çankırı "Pardoned on condition on not returning to İstanbul" according to a telegramme from the Ministry of the Interior on 25 August 1915 on the subject of exiles erroneously unlisted in a former 3 August telegramme [23].
13. Zareh Momjian
Զարեհ Մոմճեան Killed Translator at the Russian Consulate 24 April 1915 Çankırı "Pardoned on condition on not returning to İstanbul" according to a telegramme from the Ministry of the Interior on 25 August 1915 on the subject of exiles erroneously unlisted in a former 3 August telegramme [23]. Belonged to the second convoy with only two survivors that left Çankırı on 19 August 1915, jailed in Ankara 20-24 August killed en route to Yozgat[8].
14. Ruben Sevak pen name Ռուբէն Սեւակ
(Ruben Chilingirian, Տոքթ. Ռուբէն Չիլինկիրեան) b. 1885 in Silivri Killed Physician, prominent poet and writer, formerly captain in the Ottoman Army during the Balkan Wars 24 April 1915 Çankırı "Permitted to reside freely in Çankırı" according to a telegramme from the Ministry of the Interior on 25 August 1915 on the subject of exiles erroneously unlisted in a former 3 August telegramme [23]. Killed in a village called Tuneh in 1915, together with Gulistanyan, Daniel Varoujan and Mağazacıyan [24] in a group of five [8]. His house in Elmadağı, İstanbul now a museum [25].
15. Giulustanian
Կյուլուստանյան Killed Dentist 24 April 1915 Çankırı "Permitted to reside freely in Çankırı" according to a telegramme from the Ministry of the Interior on 25 August 1915 on the subject of exiles erroneously unlisted in a former 3 August telegramme [23]. Killed in a village called Tuneh in 1915, together with Ruben Sevak, Daniel Varoujan and Mağazacıyan [24] in a group of five [8].
16. Onnik Maghazajian
Օննիկ Մաղազաճեան b. 1878 in İstanbul Killed Chairman of Kumkapı Progressive Society Cartographer, bookseller 24 April 1915 Çankırı "Permitted to reside freely in Çankırı" according to a telegramme from the Ministry of the Interior on 25 August 1915 on the subject of exiles erroneously unlisted in a former 3 August telegramme [23]. Killed in a village called Tuneh in 1915, together with Ruben Sevak, Daniel Varoujan and Gulistanian [24] in a group of five [8].
17. Khachig Boghosian
Խաչիկ Պօղոսեան Survivor Doctor, psychologist, Deputy of the Armenian National Assembly [18] Arrested 24 April 1915, exiled 3 May 1915 Ayaş He arrived in Constantinople after further deportation from Ayaş to Ankara and Aleppo after the armistice. [18] Lived in Aleppo after the war. Founded a hospital. Published his memoirs of exile [24] - d. 1955 in Aleppo.
18. Mikael Shamdanjian
Միքայել Շամտանճեան b. 1874 Survivor Newspaper editor, writer, lecturer 24 April 1915 Çankırı Returns to Constantinople from Uşak after the armistice. [18] Published his memoirs of exile after the war. [24] - d. 1926[15].
19. Krikor Balakian Տ. Գրիգորիս ծ. վարդ. Պալագեան b. 1879 in Tokat Survivor Clergyman 24 April 1915 Çankırı Escaped. Lived in Manchester and Marseille after the war - Published his memoirs [26]of exile - [24] - d.1934 in Marseille
20. Haig Hojasarian
Հայկ Խօճասարեան Survivor Teacher, educator, headmaster of Bezciyan school (1901-1924)[15], politician in Ramgavar 24 April 1915 Çankırı Permitted to return to the capital mid-June 1915. Later became chancellor of the Diocese of the Armenian Church of America

[24]
21. Nakulian
Survivor Doctor 24 April 1915, exiled 3 May 1915 Ayaş where, according to Khachig Boghosian, was free to move, later returned to the capital [24] Returned to the capital.
22. Diran Kelekian
Տիրան Քէլէկեան b. 1862, Kayseri Killed Writer, university professor, publisher of a popular Turkish language newspapar, Sabah, [27] freemason, author of a French-Turkish dictionary which is still a reference [28]. 24 April 1915 Çankırı Permitted to reside with his family anywhere outside the capital by special order from Talat Pasha on 8 May 1915 [29], chose Smyrna, but was taken under military escort to Çorum to appear before a court martial and was killed on 20 October 1915 on the way to Sivas between Yozgat and Kayseri near the bridge Cokgöz on the Kizilirmak[8].
23. Nazaret Dagavarian b. 1862 Killed Physician, director of Surp Prgitch Hospital, deputy for Sivas in the Ottoman parliament, founding member of Armenian General Benevolent Union. 24 April 1915 Ayaş, then dispatched to Diyarbakır to appear before a court martial Removed from the Ayaş prison on 5 May and taken under military escort to Diyarbakır along with Agnouni, Jangulian, Khajag, Minassian and Zartarian (below) to appear before a court martial there and they were, seemingly, murdered by the [well-known] band of brigands led by Cherkes Ahmet, and lieutenants Halil and Nazım, at a locality called Karacaören shortly before arriving to Diyarbakır. [24]. The murderers were tried and executed in Damascus by Cemal Pasha in September 1915, and the assassinations became the subject of a 1916 investigation by the Ottoman Parliament led by Artin Boshgezenian, the deputy for Aleppo.
24. Khatchatur Maloomian
(Agnouni) Խաչատուր Մալումեան (Ակնունի) b. 1865 in Zangezur Killed Dashnak Dashnak militant, newspaper editor, He played a role in organizing an assembly of forces in opposition to the Ottoman Sultan, resulting in the proclamation of the Ottoman Constitution in 1908. 24 April 1915 Ayaş, then dispatched to Diyarbakır to appear before a court martial Removed from the Ayaş prison on 5 May and taken under military escort to Diyarbakır along with Dagavarian (above), Jangulian, Khajag, Minassian and Zartarian (below) to appear before a court martial there and they were, seemingly, murdered by the [well-known] band of brigands led by Cherkes Ahmet, and lieutenants Halil and Nazım, at a locality called Karacaören shortly before arriving to Diyarbakır. [24]. The murderers were tried and executed in Damascus by Cemal Pasha in September 1915, and the assassinations became the subject of a 1916 investigation by the Ottoman Parliament led by Artin Boshgezenian, the deputy for Aleppo.
25. Haroutiun Jangulian b. 1855 in Van Killed Hunchak One of the organizers of the 1890 Kumkapı affray, political activist, member of Armenian National Assembly, published his memoirs in 1913. 24 April 1915 Ayaş, then dispatched to Diyarbakır to appear before a court martial Removed from the Ayaş prison on 5 May and taken under military escort to Diyarbakır along with Dagavarian (above), Agnouni, Khajag, Minassian and Zartarian (below) to appear before a court martial there and they were, seemingly, murdered by the [well-known] band of brigands led by Cherkes Ahmet, and lieutenants Halil and Nazım, at a locality called Karacaören shortly before arriving to Diyarbakır. [24]. The murderers were tried and executed in Damascus by Cemal Pasha in September 1915, and the assassinations became the subject of a 1916 investigation by the Ottoman Parliament led by Artin Boshgezenian, the deputy for Aleppo.
26. Karekin Khajag
born as Karekin Tshakalian Գարեգին Խաժակ b. 1867 in Alexandropol Killed Dashnak Newspaper editor, teacher. 24 April 1915 Ayaş, then dispatched to Diyarbakır to appear before a court martial Removed from the Ayaş prison on 5 May and taken under military escort to Diyarbakır along with Dagavarian, Agnouni, Jangulian (above), Minassian and Zartarian (below) to appear before a court martial there and they were, seemingly, murdered by the [well-known] band of brigands led by Cherkes Ahmet, and lieutenants Halil and Nazım, at a locality called Karacaören shortly before arriving to Diyarbakır. [24]. The murderers were tried and executed in Damascus by Cemal Pasha in September 1915, and the assassinations became the subject of a 1916 investigation by the Ottoman Parliament led by Artin Boshgezenian, the deputy for Aleppo.
27. Sarkis Minassian
born as Aram Ashot b. 1873 in Çengiler, Yalova Killed Editor of Armenian newspaper in Boston till 1909, teacher, writer and political activist in the Ottoman capital after 1909. 24 April 1915 Ayaş, then dispatched to Diyarbakır to appear before a court martial Removed from the Ayaş prison on 5 May and taken under military escort to Diyarbakır along with Dagavarian, Agnouni, Jangulian, Khajag (above) and Zartarian (below) to appear before a court martial there and they were, seemingly, murdered by the [well-known] band of brigands led by Cherkes Ahmet, and lieutenants Halil and Nazım, at a locality called Karacaören shortly before arriving to Diyarbakır. [24]. The murderers were tried and executed in Damascus by Cemal Pasha in September 1915, and the assassinations became the subject of a 1916 investigation by the Ottoman Parliament led by Artin Boshgezenian, the deputy for Aleppo.
28. Roupen Zartarian Ռուբէն Զարդարեան b. 1874 in Harput Killed Writer, poet, newspaper (Azadamard) and textbook editor, considered as a pioneer of Armenian rural literature. 24 April 1915 Ayaş, then dispatched to Diyarbakır to appear before a court martial Removed from the Ayaş prison on 5 May and taken under military escort to Diyarbakır along with Dagavarian, Agnouni, Jangulian, Khajag and Minassian (below) to appear before a court martial there and they were, seemingly, murdered by the [well-known] band of brigands led by Cherkes Ahmet, and lieutenants Halil and Nazım, at a locality called Karacaören shortly before arriving to Diyarbakır. [24]. The murderers were tried and executed in Damascus by Cemal Pasha in September 1915, and the assassinations became the subject of a 1916 investigation by the Ottoman Parliament led by Artin Boshgezenian, the deputy for Aleppo.
29. Krikor Zohrab Գրիգոր Զոհրապ b. 1861 Killed Writer, jurist, deputy in the Ottoman parliament 21 May 1915 or 2 June 1915 [30] Dispatched to Diyarbakır to appear before a court martial Ordered to appear before a court martial in Diyarbakır, together with Vartkes Hovhannes Serengülyan (below), both went to Aleppo by train, escorted by one gendarme, remained in Aleppo for a few weeks, waited the results of infructuous attempts by the Ottoman governor of the city to have them sent back to the capital (some sources mention Cemal Pasha himself intervening for their return, but Talat Pasha insisting on them to sent to the court martial), and then dispatched to Urfa and remained there for some time in the house of a Turkish deputy friend, taken under police escort and led to Diyarbakır by car -allegedly accompanied on a voluntary basis by some notable Urfa Armenians, and with many sources confirming, they were murdered by the [well-known] band of brigands led by Cherkes Ahmet, Halil and Nazım, at a locality called Karaköprü or Şeytanderesi in the outskirts of Urfa, some time between 15 July and 20 July 1915. The murderers were tried and executed in Damascus by Cemal Pasha in September 1915, and the assassinations became the subject of a 1916 investigation by the Ottoman Parliament led by Artin Boshgezenian, the deputy for Aleppo.
30. Vartkes Hovhannes Serengulian Killed Deputy in the Ottoman parliament 21 May 1915 [31] or 2 June 1915 [30] Dispatched to Diyarbakır to appear before a court martial Same as Krikor Zohrab. (Cherkes Ahmet and Halil were led to Damascus and executed there on orders from Cemal Pasha, in connection with the murder of the two deputies, in 30 September 1915, Nazım had died in a fight before that.)
31. Hampartsum Boyadjian
(Mourad) b. 1867 in Egn (Saimbeyli today) Killed Hunchak Doctor, with a long and well-known history of political activity and agitation, one of the first organizers of the Hunchak in 1888 and one of its leaders, principal organizer of the 1890 Kumkapı affray, leader of the 1894-1895 Sasun revolt, after 1908 Armenian National Assembly delegate from Kumkapı and deputy of Ottoman Parliament from Adana. Mourad was his militant name [24]. 24 April 1915 Çankırı Armenian sources claim that he was led to Kayseri to appear before a court martial and then was executed there in 1915. Turkish sources contend that, being an experienced guerilla leader since twenty years, he fled from Kayseri and is the same person as the Mourad (called "Mourad of Sivas" in Armenian sources) who emerged in that city in autumn 1915, ransacked Şebinkarahisar in north-central Turkey at the head of Armenian irregulars, and who, by way of sea from Trabzon, took refuge in Russian-controlled Batum, took part in the Russo-Turkish war as a leader of Armenian paramilitaries, and who died in 1918 during the fight for Baku between Turkish and Armenian forces (sources).
32. Harutiun Kalfayan Հարություն Գալֆաեան
b. ? in Üsküdar Perished Hunchak Director of Arhanyan College. 24 April 1915 Çankırı Died in 1915 [24]. Not to be confused with his namesake, also a deportee but a Dashnak member (below), who was mayor of Bakırköy (Makriköy) quarter of the capital.
33. Harutiun Kalfayan Հարություն Գալֆաեան
b. 1870 in Talas Perished in Ankara [18] Dashnak Lawyer, mayor of Bakırköy (Makriköy) 24 April 1915 Çankırı Died in 1915 [24]. Uncle of Nshan Kalfayan (below). [18] Not to be confused with his namesake, also a deportee but a Hunchak member (above), who was a schoolmaster.
34. Parsegh Shahbaz b. 1883 in Boyacıköy, İstanbul Killed Dashnak Journalist, columnist 24 April 1915 Çankırı "Murdered on Harput-Malatya road" [24].
35. Smpad Purad
(Der-Ghazarents) b. 1862 in Zeytun (Süleymanlı today) Perished Nationalist writer, teacher 24 April 1915 Çankırı Died in 1915 [24].
36. Jak Sayabalian (Pailag) Ժակ Սայապալեան b. 1880 in Konya Perished Armenian National Assembly Interpreter for the British Consul in Konya between 1901-1905, then vice-consul for a year and a half. After 1909, journalist in the capital. 24 April 1915 Çankırı Died in 1915 [24].
37. Aristakes Kasparian Արիստակէս Գասպարեան b. 1861 in Adana Armenian National Assembly Jurist, businessman, 24 April 1915 Çankırı Died in 1915 [24].
38. Harutiun Shahrigian b. 1860 in Şebinkarahisar Perished Dashnak Dashnak leader, lawyer, member of Armenian National Assembly. 24 April 1915 Çankırı Died in 1915 [24].
39. Dr. Hagop Topjian
Յակոբ Թօփճեան b. 1876 Survivor Ramgavar Editor [32] 24 April 1915 Çankırı Permitted to return to the capital mid-June 1915. [24], died in 1951 [15].
40. Missak Djevahirdjian
Միսաք Ճէվահիրճիյան b. 1858, from Kayseri Survivor Physician (gynaecologist at the court), member of a tribunal council [18] 24 April 1915 Çankırı Permitted to return to the capital on 11 May 1915[13]. The eight prisoners of this group were notified on Sunday, 9 May 1915, about their release [12] and left Çankırı on 11 May 1915[13] . Was set free with the help of his friend Pesin Omer Pasa, died in 1924. [18]
41. Dr. Krikor Djelal
? Survivor Hunchak [18] ? 24 April 1915 Çankırı Permitted to return to the capital soon after 11 May 1915[13].
42. Dr. Parsegh Dinanian
Բարսեղ Տինանեան ? Survivor Physician 24 April 1915 Çankırı Permitted to return to the capital soon after 11 May 1915[13]. One of the organizers of the commemoration ceremony of 24 April 1919. [18]
43. VrtanesPapazian
? Survivor ? 24 April 1915 Çankırı Permitted to return to the capital soon after 11 May 1915[13].
44. Nshan Kalfayan

Նշան Գալֆաեան b. 1865? Survivor Agronomist, lecturer in agriculture at Berberyan school [15] 24 April 1915 Çankırı Permitted to return to the capital soon after 11 May 1915[13]. Moved to Greece in 1924. Was invited to Persia in 1927 to administer properties of the Shah. Was a correspondent for the Académie française. [18]
45. Armenag Parseghian
Արմենակ Բարսեղեան ? Survivor [18] Dashnak [18] Teacher, studied philosophy in Berlin, lived in Pera (Constantinople) [18] 24 April 1915 Çankırı Permitted to return to the capital soon after 11 May 1915[13].
46. Garabed Dövletian
Կարապետ Տէօվլեթեան ? Survivor Official of the mint [18] 24 April 1915 Çankırı Permitted to return to the capital soon after 11 May 1915[13].
47. Vaghinag Bardizbanian
Վաղինակ Պարտիզպանյան ? Survivor Official of the Khayrie company [18] 24 April 1915 Çankırı Permitted to return to the capital soon after 11 May 1915[13].
48. Noyig Der-Stepanian
Նոյկ Տեր-Ստեփանյան from Erzincan [18] Survivor Commission agent, merchant and banker [18] 24 April 1915 Çankırı Permitted to return to the capital soon after 11 May 1915[13]. About 40 members of his family perished [18]
49. Hagop Beylerian
Յակոբ Պէյլերեան b. 1843, from Kayseri? [15] Survivor [18] Father of Beylerian son (no. 134 in the list) [18] Merchant [18] 24 April 1915 Çankırı Permitted to return to the capital soon after 11 May 1915[13]. died in 1921? [15]
50. Vahan Altunian
Վահան Ալթունեան ? Survivor Dentist [18] 24 April 1915 Çankırı Permitted to return to the capital soon after 11 May 1915[13]. He left Çankırı on 6 August 1915, was jailed in Ankara, was displaced to Tarson, arrived in Istanbul on 22 September 1915. [18]
51. Manuk Basmajian
Մանուկ Պասմաճեան ? Survivor [18] Architect and intellectual [18] 24 April 1915 Çankırı Permitted to return to the capital soon after 11 May 1915[13] .
52. Hagop Korian
Յակոբ Գորեան from Agn, in his seventies [18] Survivor Merchant; occasionally a teacher [18] 24 April 1915 Çankırı Permitted to return to the capital soon after 11 May 1915[13] . He left Çankırı on 6 August 1915, was jailed in Ankara, was displaced to Tarson, arrived in Istanbul on 22 September 1915. [18]
53. Ohannes Terlemezian
Օհաննես Թէրլէմէզեան from Van Survivor [18] Money changer [18] 24 April 1915 Çankırı Permitted to return to the capital soon after 11 May 1915[13] . One of the last who came free from Çankırı. He left Çankırı on 6 August 1915, was jailed in Ankara, came to Tarson, arrived in Istanbul on 22 September 1915. [18]
54. Samvel Tumajan Tomajanian
Սամուել Թումաճան Թոմաճանյան ? Perished [18] Hunchak [18] ? 24 April 1915 Çankırı Permitted to return to the capital soon after 11 May 1915[13]. (Samvel Tomajian/Թօմաճեան (!) perished according to Alboyajian [18])
55. Simon Melkonian
Սիմոն Մելքոնեան from Ortaköy [18] Survivor [18] Architect [18] 24 April 1915 Çankırı Permitted to return to the capital soon after 11 May 1915[13] .
56. Apig Jambaz
ԱբիԿ Ճամպազ from Pera [18] Perished [18] Armenian-Catholic [18] Merchant [18] 24 April 1915 Çankırı Permitted to return to the capital soon after 11 May 1915[13] .
57. Melkon Gulesserian
? Survivor ? 24 April 1915 Çankırı Permitted to return to the capital soon after 11 May 1915[13] .
58. Avedis Zarifian
? Survivor ? 24 April 1915 Çankırı Permitted to return to the capital soon after 11 May 1915[13] .
59. Stepan Tatarian
Ստեփան Թաթարեան ? Survivor [18] Merchant [18] 24 April 1915 Çankırı Dispatched to Kayseri to appear before a court martial. Was joined by a group of four from Ayaş beginning of July.[13]. Survived deportation from Çankırı to Kayseri to Aleppo and returned back to Constantinople after the armistice. [18]
60. Jirayr (Onnig Gholnagdarian)
? ? ? 24 April 1915 belonged to a group of four dispatched to Kayseri to appear before a court martial[13] .
61. Aram Andonian
Արամ Անտոնեան b. 1875 in Constantinople Survivor Hunchak [33] Writer and journalist 24 April 1915 Çankırı Belonged to the second convoy with only (one [9] or) two survivors that left Çankırı on 19 August 1915, broke his leg, was jailed in Ankara 20-24 August then escaped after hospitalization in Ankara Hospital[8]. He joined another caravan of deportees and returned to Constantinople only after Tarsus, Mardin, Der Zor, Haleb [18], he stayed in concentration camps around the town of Meskeneh in the desert [33], published his experiences in his literary work In those dark days, he edited a collection of telegrams of Talat Pasha's extermination orders; he assumed directorship of the AGBU Nubar library in Paris from 1928 to 1951 [34]
62. Paruyr Arzumanian
Պարոյր Արզումանյան ? Killed ? 24 April 1915 Çankırı Belonged to the second convoy with only (one [9] or) two survivors that left Çankırı on 19 August 1915, jailed in Ankara 20-24 August killed en route to Yozgat[8].
63. Dr. Stepan Miskjian
Ստեփան Միսքճեան ? Killed [18] brother of Krikor Miskjian [18] Physician [18] 24 April 1915 Çankırı Belonged to the second convoy with only (one [9] or) two survivors that left Çankırı on 19 August 1915, jailed in Ankara 20-24 August killed en route to Yozgat[8], killed near Ankara [18].
64. Krikor Miskjian
Գրիգոր Միսքճեան b. 1865 Killed [18] brother of Stepan Miskjian [18] Pharmacist [18] 24 April 1915 Çankırı Belonged to the second convoy with only (one [9] or) two survivors that left Çankırı on 19 August 1915, jailed in Ankara 20-24 August killed en route to Yozgat[8], killed near Ankara [18]
65. Krikor Yesayan
Գրիգոր Եսայեան b. 1883, from Van [18] Killed [8] Dashnak [18] French and Math teacher, translator of Levon Shant's Ancient Gods into French [18] 24 April 1915 Çankırı Belonged to the second convoy with only (one [9] or) two survivors that left Çankırı on 19 August 1915, jailed in Ankara 20-24 August killed en route to Yozgat[8].
66. N. Der Kaprielian (Shahnour)
? Killed ? 24 April 1915 Çankırı Belonged to the second convoy with only (one [9] or) two survivors that left Çankırı on 19 August 1915, jailed in Ankara 20-24 August killed en route to Yozgat[8].
67. Mihran Tabakian

Միհրան Թապագեան b. 1878, from Adapazar [18] Killed Dashnak [18] Teacher and writer [18] 24 April 1915 Çankırı Belonged to the second convoy with only (one [9] or) two survivors that left Çankırı on 19 August 1915, jailed in Ankara 20-24 August killed en route to Yozgat[8].
68. Hagop Terzian
? Killed Author of a book Lusangartshutyun (Photography), Constantinople 1905? [15] 24 April 1915 Çankırı Belonged to the second convoy with only (one [9] or) two survivors that left Çankırı on 19 August 1915, jailed in Ankara 20-24 August killed en route to Yozgat[8].
69. Mihran Kayekjian
Միհրան Գայըգճեան ? Killed Merchant [18] 24 April 1915 Çankırı Belonged to the second convoy with only (one [9] or) two survivors that left Çankırı on 19 August 1915, jailed in Ankara 20-24 August killed en route to Yozgat[8]. Three Kayekjian brothers were deported and killed alltogether near Ankara. [18]
70. Levon Kayekjian
Լևոն Գայըգճեան ? Killed Merchant [18] 24 April 1915 Çankırı Belonged to the second convoy with only (one [9] or) two survivors that left Çankırı on 19 August 1915, jailed in Ankara 20-24 August killed en route to Yozgat[8]. Three Kayekjian brothers were deported and killed alltogether near Ankara. [18]
71. Kevork Kayekdjian
? Killed Merchant [18] 24 April 1915 Çankırı Belonged to the second convoy with only (one [9] or) two survivors that left Çankırı on 19 August 1915, jailed in Ankara 20-24 August killed en route to Yozgat[8]. Three Kayekjian brothers were deported and killed alltogether near Ankara. [18]
72. Asadur Arsenian
Ասատուր Արսենեան ? Killed Pharmacist [18] 24 April 1915 Çankırı Belonged to the second convoy with only (one [9] or) two survivors that left Çankırı on 19 August 1915, jailed in Ankara 20-24 August killed en route to Yozgat[8] or perished near Deir ez-Zor [18].
73. Parunak Ferukhan [35]
Ֆէրուխան Բարունակ b. 1884 in Constantinople [18] Killed Official of Bakırköy (Makriköy) administration and violinist [18] ? 24 April 1915 Çankırı Belonged to the second convoy with only (one [9] or) two survivors that left Çankırı on 19 August 1915, jailed in Ankara 20-24 August killed en route to Yozgat




---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


now that we have put names to the statistics, we can see that most of these people were murdered. now, the leaders of the hnshaks and dashnaks were killed BEFORE april 24th...those killed on april 24th were intellectuals and sorts. such people are not so easily replaced. it's not like we have a reserve of leaders. also, the deaths of these hnchak leaders was much more important than simply being dead, but they held information that would have been vital had they survived..anyways, all this will be published in the archives of the ottoman empire, i don't feel like getting into those details. the point being that in april 1915, the armenian people were effectively beheaded. the militias as well. they were able to work, but not in coordination.

(also, small reminder, after a ruling by the admins, before you joined this forum, we cannot refer to dro as a nazi, since it was effectively proven that he wasn't) also, dro tried to join the communist government before he joined the germans.

and yes these parties were still around, because obviously, the turks were not able to kill everyone..they were largely destroyed during the genocide, and were reconstituted from scratch after the genocide, which is why they still exist today.

You were strong with Ruski along you thus cleansed yerevan and surrounding areas of muslims

this is pure fantasy, probably taken off an azeri website. there were muslims in yerevan till 1990. (there still are a few..but yah..). also, yerevan was a tiny city till 1923. it was a village basically. so it's not like if there were that many muslims to kill you know;)
also, it is rediculous that russians would commit ethnic cleansing of muslims, since at least a 10th of the population of their empire was muslim, and they wern't deporting them.

how could a whole people simply...lose anatolia..i mean it's not like...oh crap, i dropped my anatolia...

in war, soldiers die, and yes, some civilians,...but entire populations.....??? i mean, use that head of yours. plus, it is not that hard to imagine, i mean, turks have continued this though to a lesser extent, when facing the pontic greeks, the Assyrians, the zazas and so on. i mean it's not like it's some unimaginable thing that the turks would never have done.

i never said that armenians litterally built constantinople, i said that armenians ran most of the business there. also, armenians have been living in the city since it was built, it was not your oh so gracious sultan who 'let us in'.

[arrow]

I know fedayi is not Turkish nor ermenian, I though it was persian.

You know the saying, when you kill a few people it is a terrible event, when you kill millions it is statistics.. Sad but true, I don't care about the names nor the personalities of the poeple you listed. As far as I am concerned they tried to revolt against Ottomans and cought on the way. And I seriously don't care if they were innocent or not, if they were they were not the first nor the last to be executed / punished unjustly.

About the muslims in todays ermenistan. Ok, lets think that I am wrong about yerevan, but what about the ermenistan together. We know that area was highly populated by muslims along with others. You keep telling us about how christians of istanbul are not there today, and about ermeni populations relocation. I think you need to consider that your ancestors are not snow white....

And about char's muslims. Please check the deportation of muslims turks, cecens, cerkez, abaz, ahıska ( I am one ). They deported at least 2 million to Ottoman empire around 1850-1880 to couse trouble in the empire thus getting the upper hand in their ultimate goal " getting to the medeterranian sea ".



Constantinapoli... Merhants from Venice , Genova actually run all the business. They bought parts of the city, literally, with gold from the king...


When Fatih conquered the city, a large portion of his army were ermeni, they were named " dervis" a name given to those with trade and good warring skills. Later the title transformed into other things but that is not our concern for now. For theşr bravery, ermeni dervis were allowed to take most of the business of genevoan venecian traders.

Anyways, I suggest you read Voltaire and his realted topics about how Constantinapoli became Istanbul .Becouse of our certain trust issues maybe voltaire may make you see.

Regards my brother.

[Hosank]

i believe the quote was "the death of one man is a trajedy, the death of a thousand is just statistics" by joseph stalin. i am glad that you take the quotes of one of the world's most brutal mass murderers to describe the 'sad trajedy' that is the genocide of 1.5 million armenians at the hands of your grandparents. it is such a good indicator of your logic ...since...we are just a statistic that would be eliminated right?

As far as I am concerned they tried to revolt against Ottomans and cought on the way. And I seriously don't care if they were innocent or not, if they were they were not the first nor the last to be executed / punished unjustly.

this right here, is an oxymoron, a contradiction. you are saying that they deserved death because they were plotting revolution (something that has now been proven not to be true btw), and then you are saying that you don't care that they are innocent, because they are a statistic. so you are saying, if i may paraphrase, that because in history, many others have been wrongfully accused, murdered, genocided, it is perfectly acceptable for the turkish authorities to murder the heads of the armenian intelligiencia, and begin one of the 20th centuries most horrific acts because you do not care rather or not these people were actually responsable for any uprising.
in other words...you are justifying genocide.
but you know what. the ottomans KNEW that the people in the list above, living peaceful lives in the capital of the empire were not involved in any revolutionary activity, and it is not for that reason that they killed them, they killed them because they were the leaders of the common armenians, they knew that killing them would disperce the armenian people. this is premeditated murder...on an ethnic scale.

About the muslims in todays ermenistan.

there were muslims in armenia, but quite few relatively to the armenian population in the region, and they were the descendants of turkic raiders, persian officials that were governing the region when it was part of persia and so on. when the russians entered armenia in the 1850s, most persians left, bringing the population of muslims considerably down. there have been at least 200 000 muslims in armenia till the breakup of the soviet union,(more than christians in all of turkey) now there are only a few thousand. since most were azeris who fled because they thought the armenians would replicate for the sumgait massacres. (which we didn't actually believe it or not)

arrow, no one is snow white, but just like in law, there are ceveral degrees of criminals, do not think for a second that you are on the same level as armenians.

They deported at least 2 million to Ottoman empire around 1850-1880 to couse trouble in the empire thus getting the upper hand in their ultimate goal " getting to the medeterranian sea ".

yes this is true...but as you see, (as you infact pointed out) this was a means of imperial expansion, part of a great game, not part of a campaign specifically targetted at muslims. but armenia is not close to the mediteranian, and displacing muslims in armenia would not benefit the russian imperium, so that is irrelevant.

you know as well as me that armenians were very influencial in constantinople's business. also keep in mind that venice and genoa ceased to exist as independant states by the early 1800s.

may i remind you that voltaire is not a historian, but a philosopher (which i do not particularily like btw). and as i mentionned before and you seem to close your mind to (because you cannot believe that there was life before the turk) armenians were ALREADY in constantinople before the ottoman invasion, and infact fought in it's army agains the muslims, and the armenians fighting for the ottomans were janissaries this is well known fact.

Regards my brother.

brothers do not murder their brothers...
even cain asked for forgiveness to god after regretting the murder of abel

[arrow]

.....you are saying that they deserved death because they were plotting revolution (something that has now been proven not to be true btw), ......

Please do not put words in my mouth , I never ever said anything like that. I said" I don't care if they were innocent or not, they were not the first nor the last ones to be punished unjustly, if they were innocent"....

If you go on like this it would turn into you arguing yourself..

And a few notes on what you posted..

-If an empire is at war, none of her residents can live in peacefull manners.
-Yeniceri are the people of Balkans, not the anatolia. They are converted to Islam. My post about Ermeni Dervis is solid fact. No debate is necessary on this. But feel free to believe whatever you like.
- Voltaire is an author / philosopher yes, and the US congress is a political party, they are neither historians, nor other nations senates... What is your point ? That historians should debate
-When Russia ethnic cleansed that area of muslims, I am sure the deportees felt sympathy to the reasons of Russia. And the 200,000 thousand muslims maybe true, but only after WW1. Before there were millions.
-I will never apoligise for a lie nor feel responsible for an historical debate.

You are my brother, we do have family disputes but reality still remains.

[Hosank]

lol, actually i am not putting anywords into your mouth, i am repeating what you have said, you are just once again rephrasing yourself in futile hope that i will not simply scroll up and re-read your previous comment.

As far as I am concerned they tried to revolt against Ottomans and cought on the way. And I seriously don't care if they were innocent or not

this is what you said. this means that you think that the people who i have named, professors, priests, authors, intellectuals, deserve death for an uprising that never happened, and that today we know was not even planned, so infact, YOU ARE SAYING THAT

If an empire is at war, none of her residents can live in peacefull manners.

agreed, but that does not mean we have to intentionally accelerate the deaths of minorities and use war as an excuse (as you, and your predecessors have done)...

After the 1380s Sultan Mehmet I filled their ranks with the results of taxation in human form called devshirmeh: the Sultan's men conscripted a number of non-Muslim, usually Christian Balkan boys, taken at birth at first at random, later, by strict selection – to be converted to Islam and trained. Initially they favoured Greeks, Bulgarians, Armenians and Albanians

so if you agree that voltaire is irrelevant to the debate, why did you include him? and also, if we must play around with your now-very-boring-and-repetitive us congress story, i will repeat, yet again, that the historical debate has already taken place, i posted the videos proving it, and as usual, you did not reply to them. second, congress controls what we call, a state, states usually have histories, and it is the governing bodies of these entities which we call states that deside their respective histories.

lol...millions? haaahahahaha, maan that was the best part of your post. do you have any idea how infinately small eastern armenia is? i mean, azerbaijan is at least 2 and a half times larger than armenia, and they only have 7 million inhabitants. how many millions do you think can fit in armenia? i mean, unless they were stacked one on top of the other lool...

give me a break, come back with real statistics.

[arrow]

Hosank I will write story then post something about your last post.

Pope Jean Paul 16th decided to visit NY city after a long time. When he arrived to NY airport reporters from all news agencies started asking him questions. One of them asked " hollyness, are you going to visit the whorehouses to ask ladies there to see their wrongs?" ... The pope was shocked and asked " what, are there whorehouses in NY?". Being a man of faith he probably never give the issue much thought earlier.. Anyways the next day some papers took just the part " are there whorehouses in NY" and used this to give a disgracing look to Jean Paul..

When you take one part of the sentence, you may use it to change the whole concept of it. Please don't do that. You are better than that. You and I know very well that I never said nor mentioned anything like " they deserved death".. Just don't get ugly, there is no need...

And yea, you posted videos about a genocie , unfortunatly those videos are not from 1915-18 times. We have been over this. Mass graves, dna tests on bodies etc may do better.

And devsirme, they are as your article stated are from Balkans. Balkans are mostly Greek, Slav, Bulgar and Albanian .And the best warriors were Bulgars and Albanians. Ermeni were dervis, not devsirme..

[Hosank]

i just copied the article there buddy..

and very compelling story...too bad it's worthless in this case. arrow, you are trying to tell me that i am changing your message. however i am not. i suggest you re-read your first post on the matter, then read mine again, and then read your next one, and see that i am not distorting any information, because underneath all your sugarcoating of 'oh it is sad that innocent people died' you are saying that it is necessary for them to have died...because of some revolution.

even though we know the ottomans were not expecting a revolution, and killed them anyways. they killed them for nothing, and knew it, thus, they murdered them. and having known these to factors, and still supporting these actions, you are in effect, agreeing to their murder..so do not try to play games with me, i am not dumb

[arrow]

i just copied the article there buddy..

.....'oh it is sad that innocent people died' you are saying that it is necessary for them to have died...because of some revolution.

I never said they were innocent, I said "I don't care about the names nor the personalities of the poeple you listed. As far as I am concerned they tried to revolt against Ottomans and cought on the way. And I seriously don't care if they were innocent or not, if they were they were not the first nor the last to be executed / punished unjustly."

You are trying so hard but still nothing....

Then you said that ".....you are saying that they deserved death because they were plotting revolution (something that has now been proven not to be true btw)" ...


And I said "Please do not put words in my mouth , I never ever said anything like that. I said" I don't care if they were innocent or not, they were not the first nor the last ones to be punished unjustly, if they were innocent"....

Then you said " lol, actually i am not putting anywords into your mouth, i am repeating what you have said, you are just once again rephrasing yourself in futile hope that i will not simply scroll up and re-read your previous comment.

QUOTE
As far as I am concerned they tried to revolt against Ottomans and cought on the way. And I seriously don't care if they were innocent or not"


Now since we have the brief history of your word games we can continue. When you pick some part of a sentence the meaning may differ. That is what you try to do but fail. I will not go on talking about long time dead peope that were executed justly or unjuslt. I don't even care if they were innocent or not. You may go on forever and ever and it will mean nothing to me.

If you have anything else and new on the Cyprus issue, please enlighten us. Becouse frankly you turning all topics into a whining topic is getting boring. I told you too many times, go take your case to a court, or go to a shrink .Becouse those are the 2 best options to help you with your obsession.

[Hosank]

arrow, i am thoroughly happy to learn that you have mastered the art of copy-and-pasting, next step would be reading.

what you are doing now is sinking into the debate of intricacies which ultimately have no value to the main direction of the discussion. you are just twisting your own words.

now look here:

I never said they were innocent,

And I seriously don't care if they were innocent or not, if they were they were not the first nor the last to be executed / punished unjustly."

as you see, i placed your full sentences, so you cannot pretend that i have cut you, for further reference, one can simply scroll up and read the rest of your post that is irrelevant to me. now, back to the subject. in the first quote, you are quite sure that the people i have named (even though you havn't even researched them) were infact guilty and thus deserved execution, since you deny ever saying they were innocent.
in your second quote, one will notice that you do not completely set asside that these individuals could have been innocent, but to you it doesn't matter anyways, because innocent or not, they should pay for this crime (an inconistancy in itself) that is 1.
2. we know (this is the 3rd time i am telling you this) from recent findings there was no revolution coming AND THE OTTOMAN AUTHORITIES KNEW THIS..but they chose to murder them anyways, ...a clue one might say, as it was the beginning of the organised mass killings of armenians throughout the empire, known as genocide. and now that his info is on the table, and you still say, innocent or not, they should have died..you are complying to this murderous mentality, no matter what you try to say, or what human right causes you believe in.

[arrow]

.......you are quite sure that the people i have named (even though you havn't even researched them) were infact guilty

I never said they were guilty.

Anyways what's up with the cyprus, have you ever been there ?

[Mordoth]

IF US Citizens consider "the landing and periodic invasion of American Continent by Europoids " LEGAL
or Swedes/Norges/Danes consider Viking mass murdering of inhabitant Finns & Saami Turks to own Scandinavian Peninsula LEGAL

then i would better accept Liberation of Cyprus illegal .

That would be a bulk reply to all panaryan or stormfrontic guys/lady around here.