It is all Pan-Turkism Options

[concheet]

Thrace, Bati, Armenia, Cyprus, Azerbaycan, Kurdistan....

[kurdistani]

Thrace, Bati, Armenia, Cyprus, Azerbaycan, Kurdistan....

Well Kurdistan is not Pan Turkist.. since Kurds don't consider themselevs as part of the Turkic world....
And Aremnia is a main bad guy for Pan Turkism....

[Dîrî]

Thrace, Bati, Armenia, Cyprus, Azerbaycan, Kurdistan....

Well Kurdistan is not Pan Turkist.. since Kurds don't consider themselevs as part of the Turkic world....
And Aremnia is a main bad guy for Pan Turkism....

I think Concheet meant that those are the victims of the Pan Turks...

The victims:

The Greek: Bati Trakya, Kuzey Kibris...
The Armenians: Western Armenia, Armenia proper...
The Kurds: All of Kurdistan, North Kurdistan in particular...

Azerbaycan would be an acomplice...

[concheet]

Yes that was my meaning, Diri...

I have been investigating... I wonder if the Turks don't plan on taking over Azerbaycan as well? as well as Armenian, Greek Cyprus etc

azeags- poster
Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 3:24 pm Post subject: the truths
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

armenians will never accept it and they will even call their own a traitor...armenians are not human beings...i dont say it just because of a hatred...i have seen what they have done to the civillians in karabakh..

i honestly believe that its time to stop all negotiations with armenia..they always threat us so we should talk to them in a way which they always deserve.
http://middleeastinfo.org/forum/viewtopic....der=asc&start=0

hanim Poster
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 1:45 pm

It all started with the interference of the armenian diaspora and Armenia and their long dreams for the greater Armenia.

http://middleeastinfo.org/forum/viewtopic....der=asc&start=0

How things get twisted! Greater Armenia? I think Greater Turkey is the real truth... I keep hearing from BT and others a "call to arms" against Cyprus... a drumming up of hatred against Armenia, against the Greeks... for what purpose?

Is it my imagination or are both Greek Cyprus and Armenia small Christian enclaves surrounded by Muslims? Is this perhaps a reason? could it really be related to some Islamic fundamentalists of this nature?

[concheet]

for example this post by BT:

Mordoth you know whats really funny, how Greece now regrets ever having the policy ENEMY OF MY ENEMY IS MY FRIEND.

Cos now there is a Muslim Bow around Greece in the Balkans.

Greeces enemies are our real friends, real brothers and sisters with real love, Bosnians/Albanians/Kosovans/Macedonians/Turks all in Greece and around and all Turkish friends and we'll work together to achieve our goals

Now Greece is shaking and regrets ever playing stupid games against us cos now the game switched around, lets see how Greece does


TURKISH KIBRIS 22 YEARS ANNIVERSARY TODAY EVERY DAY WE GET STRONGER

http://middleeastinfo.org/forum/viewtopic....p?p=56182#56182

doesn't this sound like the threat of a Jihadist?

[Persian]

I have posted something about this:

http://middleeastinfo.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6518

[Mordoth]

For more than 900 years the territory of modern day armenia was PURE TUrKISH wasn't it ? Governed by Ottomans ... Shall you deny it ? But we today accepted the international Gumru Treatry , which realized today's armenia . But you armenians still try to claim Eastern Anatolia is Armenian . Haha , you are ridiculous . ( Utopia )
Turan is not sth. bad . Only some people who are againist Turks , unlike the Kurd in this forum , claim that it means MURDER . No , it is completely misunderstanding . People who dunno sth. about it misinform people around here brothers . It is both cultural , lingual , economical and political . Never killed someone . But beware , Turkish racism is today increasing which i also afraid of ...
Please do not insult TURKS ... We have not touched to anyone , try to keep calm .

[Persian]

For more than 900 years the territory of modern day armenia was PURE TUrKISH wasn't it ? .

what, are you saying that Armenians were turks for 900 years????

[Yerevan]

For more than 900 years the territory of modern day armenia was PURE TUrKISH wasn't it ? Governed by Ottomans ... Shall you deny it ? But we today accepted the international Gumru Treatry , which realized today's armenia . But you armenians still try to claim Eastern Anatolia is Armenian . Haha , you are ridiculous . ( Utopia )


Armenians were living on that land way before you Turks settled there. If you put it like that, then present day Turkey belongs to Assyrians, Greeks, Kurds and Armenians.

[Yerevan]

For more than 900 years the territory of modern day armenia was PURE TUrKISH wasn't it ?

Did you learn that in school? What class was that pan-turkism or grey wolves 101?

[Mordoth]

Turks have entered modern day Eastern Anatolia in 1071 . And exactly they had already conquered Erivan and Azarbaidjan before anatolian conquest . man i 've nothing to do with grey wolves .
Armenians were not Turks of course . But they lived more than 900 years with together in peace . Shall you deny that 1 too ?

Armenians were living on that land way before you Turks settled there. If you put it like that, then present day Turkey belongs to Assyrians, Greeks, Kurds and Armenians.

We are not putting sth. instead of another . We accept there was a democracy lover and a honest nation which we beloved too . They were opressed by Byzantine church .
Well , i dont want to argue which communities were living in these lands . Turks were always dominant and still its dominancy make you afraid .

[Azertos]

Yes that was my meaning, Diri...

I have been investigating... I wonder if the Turks don't plan on taking over Azerbaycan as well? as well as Armenian, Greek Cyprus etc

azeags- poster
Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 3:24 pm Post subject: the truths
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

armenians will never accept it and they will even call their own a traitor...armenians are not human beings...i dont say it just because of a hatred...i have seen what they have done to the civillians in karabakh..

i honestly believe that its time to stop all negotiations with armenia..they always threat us so we should talk to them in a way which they always deserve.
http://middleeastinfo.org/forum/viewtopic....der=asc&start=0

hanim Poster
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 1:45 pm

It all started with the interference of the armenian diaspora and Armenia and their long dreams for the greater Armenia.

http://middleeastinfo.org/forum/viewtopic....der=asc&start=0

How things get twisted! Greater Armenia? I think Greater Turkey is the real truth... I keep hearing from BT and others a \"call to arms\" against Cyprus... a drumming up of hatred against Armenia, against the Greeks... for what purpose?

Is it my imagination or are both Greek Cyprus and Armenia small Christian enclaves surrounded by Muslims? Is this perhaps a reason? could it really be related to some Islamic fundamentalists of this nature?

I beg your pardon??? Islamic fundamentalists? you're funny. haha! i'm laughing my a$$ off! you can't come up with something else than Islam this islam that.....why don't you admit that you hate muslims...you know i actually don't give a s**t about your opinion,ohhh and about ''greater Turkey'' i have something to add to your ''investigation'', we are not trying to steal other lands and make it ''greater Turkey'', it's just an idea of getting turkic states together, because we were separated from each other...it's like seeing your familly after a long period of time. As secular states Azerbaijan and Turkey are following the Turkish Kemalist model, in Turkey it's because of Ataturk , in Azerbaijan it's been made possible by ex-Soviet Union, so your ''fundamentalist' thing is nonsense!

[hanim]

Is it my imagination or are both Greek Cyprus and Armenia small Christian enclaves surrounded by Muslims? Is this perhaps a reason? could it really be related to some Islamic fundamentalists of this nature?

Concheet,
connecting tragedy of 1915, karabakh conflict with the religious question is the biggest mistake. Turks of Turkey have never been extremely religious, azerbaijanis havent even in greater extend, majority dont pray but still consider themselves muslims. Karabakh conflict is the dispute over the land, nothing to do with difference in religions. Do you kbow there is a big jewish community in Azerbaijan and they are treated the best compared to all other post-soviet republics. And these pictures you have posted underneath your post is something completely alien to our people. (though I dont deny, you may come across some radicals, but they are no way any majority and not supported)

[Azertos]

Hanim,

i agree with you on that, in azerbaijan nobody gives power to fundamentalists, it's just not in our genes, religion is not about terrorism, for me religion is about worshipping God and trying to help the poor, but there is no way to convince someone who is against us, and jews in our country are not comparable with other ones, i think it's because they lived with us and became part of our culture!

[Azertos]

and hanim those pics aren't from azerbaijan nor turkey, concheet is just trying to make his point ''clear'' by sending some ridiculous pictures!

[chase]

Yes that was my meaning, Diri...

I have been investigating... I wonder if the Turks don't plan on taking over Azerbaycan as well? as well as Armenian, Greek Cyprus etc

azeags- poster
Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 3:24 pm Post subject: the truths
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

armenians will never accept it and they will even call their own a traitor...armenians are not human beings...i dont say it just because of a hatred...i have seen what they have done to the civillians in karabakh..

i honestly believe that its time to stop all negotiations with armenia..they always threat us so we should talk to them in a way which they always deserve.
http://middleeastinfo.org/forum/viewtopic....der=asc&start=0

hanim Poster
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 1:45 pm

It all started with the interference of the armenian diaspora and Armenia and their long dreams for the greater Armenia.

http://middleeastinfo.org/forum/viewtopic....der=asc&start=0

How things get twisted! Greater Armenia? I think Greater Turkey is the real truth... I keep hearing from BT and others a \"call to arms\" against Cyprus... a drumming up of hatred against Armenia, against the Greeks... for what purpose?

Is it my imagination or are both Greek Cyprus and Armenia small Christian enclaves surrounded by Muslims? Is this perhaps a reason? could it really be related to some Islamic fundamentalists of this nature?

A followup to your clearly defined pictures concheet. A woman draped in a chador made from the EU flag photographed by a Turk. How long until it's the bloody red Turkey flag?

concheet wrote:

How things get twisted! Greater Armenia? I think Greater Turkey is the real truth... I keep hearing from BT and others a \"call to arms\" against Cyprus... a drumming up of hatred against Armenia, against the Greeks... for what purpose?
Is it my imagination or are both Greek Cyprus and Armenia small Christian enclaves surrounded by Muslims? Is this perhaps a reason? could it really be related to some Islamic fundamentalists of this nature?

None of it's your imagination concheet. You're right on the money!

[concheet]

I beg your pardon??? Islamic fundamentalists? you're funny. haha! i'm laughing my a$$ off! you can't come up with something else than Islam this islam that.....why don't you admit that you hate muslims...you know i actually don't give a s**t about your opinion,ohhh

Well, fine... maybe you have a better idea? Lets see:

and about ''greater Turkey'' i have something to add to your ''investigation'', we are not trying to steal other lands and make it ''greater Turkey'', it's just an idea of getting turkic states together, because we were separated from each other...it's like seeing your familly after a long period of time. As secular states Azerbaijan and Turkey are following the Turkish Kemalist model, in Turkey it's because of Ataturk , in Azerbaijan it's been made possible by ex-Soviet Union, so your ''fundamentalist' thing is nonsense!

First of all the analogy is flawed. It sounds very innocent and all, but you people can see each other just fine, without having to slaughter all the neighbors in between, or having to own all the land and dictate all the customs between you. I suspect it is because your neighbors are Christian that you figure it is perfectly alright to kill them or dictate to them. As for the rationalization that it is the fault of the ex-USSR, that sounds like another typical Islamic excuse for refusing to take responsibility for their own actions. You all sound like nasty little children, wanting for yourself and not caring who gets in your way...

[chase]

Quote:
azeags- poster
Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 3:24 pm Post subject: the truths
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

armenians will never accept it and they will even call their own a traitor...armenians are not human beings...i dont say it just because of a hatred...i have seen what they have done to the civillians in karabakh..

i honestly believe that its time to stop all negotiations with armenia..they always threat us so we should talk to them in a way which they always deserve.
http://middleeastinfo.org/forum/viewtopic....der=asc&start=0


Quote:
hanim Poster
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 1:45 pm

It all started with the interference of the armenian diaspora and Armenia and their long dreams for the greater Armenia.

http://middleeastinfo.org/forum/viewtopic....der=asc&start=0

Disgusting comments! Where are they reading this putrid garbage one might wonder?

[concheet]

Do you kbow there is a big jewish community in Azerbaijan and they are treated the best compared to all other post-soviet republics.

I know there are Jews in Azerbaijan and that they are treated no worse than anywhere else. You could search here to compare, or read the following stories :

UNION OF COUNCILS FOR JEWS IN THE FORMER SOVIET UNION

What's happening in Azerbaijan


Azerbaijani Authorities Drop Criminal Investigation of Editor Who Published Hitler's Mein Kampf (January 8, 2005)

Juma Mosque Stolen By Police (July 7, 2004)

Azerbaijan Passover Scaled Back (April 9, 2004)

Israeli Woman Killed By Muslim Extremist in Azerbaijan (May 12, 2003)

Life Drains Away from Lost Tribe of Mountain Jews (May 5, 2003)

After Meeting with Jewish Leaders, Azerbaijan to Legalize Jewish School (April 8, 2003)

Azeri Synagogue Dedicated (March 14, 2003)

Money Woes Delay New Synagogue for Jews Living in Baku, Azerbaijan (September 9, 2002)

Anti-Israel Protest in Baku (April 16, 2002)

In an Azerbaijani Village, a Teen-ager Leads the Seder (February 14, 2002)

Update on Baku Cemetery Desecration (November 6, 2001)

Jewish Cemetery Desecrated In Azerbaijan (November 2, 2001)

Azerbaijani Official Calls Christian Missionaries Spies, Cites Extremist Threat To Jews (October 17, 2001)

Azeri Fundamentalists Blame "Zionists" For September 11 (October 9, 2001)

Government of Azerbaijan Worried About Iranian Fundamentalist Threat (May 9, 2001)

Azeri Terrorist Group Sentenced "Zionist" to Death (March 12, 2001)

ANTISEMITISM IN GEORGIA, AZERBAIJAN AND ARMENIA (August 25, 1999)

Azerbaijan's Mountain Jews Battle Economy to Preserve Way of Life (September 9, 1998)

http://www.fsumonitor.com/indices/Azerbaijan.shtml


More can be found here:
http://www.fsumonitor.com/stories/asem1az.shtml

[hanim]

concheet,
Im glad that you know how well jews are trated in Azerbaijan. All those individual cases you have underlined cant picture the treatment of all the jews in the country. Do you have an idea how big the population of jews in Azerbaijan is. Well, if I take 20.000 azeris ar random, I will definately find a few who have suffered a burglary, mugging or other kinds of violence recently. Thats what can happened in any society, any big cities.
If you wanna a real true situation with jews, read the most recent human rights report of human on Azerbaijan about Jews:

Cases of prejudice and discrimination against Jews in the country were very limited, and in the few instances of anti-Semitic activity, the Government was quick to respond. Jewish community leaders consistently remarked on the positive relationship they have with the Government and leaders of other religious communities. In April, however, a rabbi in Baku received a threatening letter prior to the start of Passover. Authorities responded quickly and took security precautions to ensure that the festival proceeded without incident. In July, a new Jewish Community Center was opened in Baku with high-level government participation. Authorities also reserved one wing of a Baku school for secular and religious classes for 200 Jewish students.

When it come to wahhabists who insulted jews on a few occasiaons, azeri people dont like them, either. Dont thonk they are adored in Azerbaijan. Actually, there were a few cases when their rights were violtated:

During the year, several newspapers and television broadcasts depicted nontraditional religious groups as a threat to the country's identity. Some of these highly critical reports extended to humanitarian organizations in the country that had links with foreign religious organizations. Such hostility was also directed toward foreign Iranian and Wahhabi Muslim missionary activity, which was viewed as a threat to stability and peace and an attempt to politicize Islam. Pro-government media targeted some Muslim communities that the Government claimed were involved in illegal activities.

Its always because of a bunch of extremests, who smirch their religion, ordinary people and their religious beliefs are targeted.

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2004/41670.htm

If you are looking for individual cases of violation of human rights, you can find them in any country, even ther most democratic. What you need to look at is the overall situation with the certain religious groups.

[Azertos]

I beg your pardon???  Islamic fundamentalists? you're funny. haha! i'm laughing my a$$ off! you can't come up with something else than Islam this islam that.....why don't you admit that you hate muslims...you know i actually don't give a s**t  about your opinion,ohhh

Well, fine... maybe you have a better idea? Lets see:

and about ''greater Turkey'' i have something to add to your ''investigation'', we are not trying to steal other lands and make it ''greater Turkey'', it's just an idea of getting turkic states together, because we were separated from each other...it's like seeing your familly after a long period of time. As secular states Azerbaijan and Turkey are following the Turkish Kemalist model, in Turkey it's because of Ataturk , in Azerbaijan it's been made possible by  ex-Soviet Union, so your ''fundamentalist' thing is nonsense!

First of all the analogy is flawed. It sounds very innocent and all, but you people can see each other just fine, without having to slaughter all the neighbors in between, or having to own all the land and dictate all the customs between you. I suspect it is because your neighbors are Christian that you figure it is perfectly alright to kill them or dictate to them. As for the rationalization that it is the fault of the ex-USSR, that sounds like another typical Islamic excuse for refusing to take responsibility for their own actions. You all sound like nasty little children, wanting for yourself and not caring who gets in your way...

ok concheet, wich part of the analogy is flawed? maybe you are blind or just ignorant, but i was talking about TURKIC states, states recognized by the whole WORLD like Azerbaijan, Turkey, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan etc...understoood, the TURKIC states, and excusez-moi, slaughtering all the neighbours in between and having to ''own'' all the land ??? whaaahaaaaaa that's a good one, who's slaughtering who? and who's owning someones land?? lets take a look to azerbaijan wich crosses borders with 3 christian countries; Armenia, Georgia and Russia, so according to you we are owning and dictating these countries??? whahahah damn i never knew we had that much power!!! Russia is impossible to own, it's very logical to think about that, Georgia is a very good neighbour to us, so you are claiming that we have plans to kill them and own the country??? it leaves only one country wich we can't get along with, and that's of course Armenia, because we want our 20% occupied lands back!!!!Maybe this time you should do a better thinking about your SUSPICIONS!
Back to the Islamic fundamentalists thing, who said i was blaiming russia for modernizing Azerbaijan and making it secular?? ohh acoording to your ''suspicions'''i'm blaiming russia, because ''i'm a nasty child who is wanting for myself and not caring about who gets in my way'' maybe you should use your logical sense than your suspicions!!! and don't twist my words, i'm actually very thankful for russia for doing such a favour for my country, giving the possibility to use your knowledge rather religion.

[Yerevan]

and that's of course Armenia, because we want our 20% occupied lands back!

Karabakh was a hostiric part of Armenia and today it belongs to its owners (Armenians). And Karabakh will never go back to Azeris which who occupied our land for so many years. Yesturday, we have raised 7.5 million dollars to help our brothers and sisters in Karabakh as we have done each year on Thanksgiving day.

[hanim]

and that's of course Armenia, because we want our 20% occupied lands back!

Karabakh was a hostiric part of Armenia and today it belongs to its owners (Armenians). And Karabakh will never go back to Azeris which who occupied our land for so many years. Yesturday, we have raised 7.5 million dollars to help our brothers and sisters in Karabakh as we have done each year on Thanksgiving day.

Sure, Karabakh is yours. Thats why it hasnt been recognised as independent by a single country in the world, including Armenia. Whats the reason for that? Sure not because "it belongs to its owners", but rather that it has been forcibly separated from Azerbaijan and ethnically cleansed.

[Persian]

conni chon,

don't you even dare connect Islam with pan-turkism, not even "Islamic fundamentalism".

it seems you always try to blame things on Islam and Muslims. You're blind to whats really happening because of your hate of Muslims.

Pan-turks are no muslims, christians, jews, or w/e religion. Pan-turkism is a secular idealogy much like Nazism.

my point: stop hating on Islam and Muslims and blaming them for everything that is wrong with this world. Damn it.

[Azertos]

Come on Persian, do you really believe that conni chon is gonna open his eyes???? and become more tolerant towards muslims?? that would be a miracle!!!!

[Yerevan]

Thats why it hasnt been recognised as independent by a single country in the world, including Armenia. Whats the reason for that?

There are many reasons. And the reason is political. Every single Armenian knows that Karabakh is part of Armenia. I don't feel like explaining to you because it's gonna take too much time, besides that you are very stubborn and before I make my point I'm sure our discussion will lead Karabakh war and you will start pasting your crap from khojali.com.
As I have said there was a telethon yesturday for "Armenia Fund", and we have raised $7.5 million for Karabakh. Specifically for the Martakert region.I was voluteering in the morning at the studio. Armenian Foreign Minister Vartan Oskanian as well as the President of Karabakh Arkady Khukasyan were there from 8am to 8pm. I wa fortunate enough to hear Oskanyan's as well as Khukasyan's views on the Karabakh conflict as well as negotiations first hand from them. Of course they would not tell us all the detailed about the negotiations, but I gotta tell you Hanim. There is a slim to none chance that Karabakh will ever fo back to Azerjaijan.

[Persian]

Come on Persian, do you really believe that conni chon is gonna open his eyes???? and become more tolerant towards muslims?? that would be a mirracle!!!!

no, obviously not, but its worth a try.

He/she is a notorious muslim-hater. Its sad for her really, she has to live with this hate. I wonder if KKK members sleep well knowing that Blacks can go to a place where white people go too. Probably not.

and probably Conni cants sleep well knowing that Muslims are now everywhere. A peoples who must be tolerated not hated. The world is not going to be a segregated community forever <---- conni's and other racist's worst nightmare.

Conni would have nightmares knowing that she would have a muslim neighbour. woooooh. Scary muslim.

[chase]

Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 4:45 pm Post subject:

[quote] BIGTURKEY:
Yrevan the world will be exposed to the Armenian Genocides, its a matter of time, as our populations carry on increasing at its rapid rate in the West and we found our own civil movements groups and Lobby's we will be able to crush those pathetic Dashneks puny lies and show the world the realities. They said Cyprus could never be liberated, 15 years we told them just wait and see, who had the last laugh_________________

[quote]BIGTURK

Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 5:29 pm Post subject:

Hanim, what can you expect from Yerevan, a proven racist, shovanist, homophobe

What are your views of Greater Armenia the Christian Kingdom?[/
_________________

[quote]Baku87
Poster

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 5:55 am Post subject:

I agree with BIGTURK I mean armenie are still denting this whole Genocide. This is good news that its actually brought forward every nation in the world recognizes this as a massacre except the armenie (what a bunch of fools)

[quote]azeags- poster
Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2005 3:24 pm Post subject: the truths

armenians will never accept it and they will even call their own a traitor...armenians are not human beings...i dont say it just because of a hatred...i have seen what they have done to the civillians in karabakh..

i honestly believe that its time to stop all negotiations with armenia..they always threat us so we should talk to them in a way which they always deserve.
http://middleeastinfo.org/forum/viewtopic....der=asc&start=0

[quote]hanim Poster
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 1:45 pm

It all started with the interference of the armenian diaspora and Armenia and their long dreams for the greater Armenia
http://middleeastinfo.org/forum/viewtopic....der=asc&start=0


Concheet, When one starts calling someone a \"Muslim hater\" or something equally as obnoxious it means they've lost.

Congratulations!

Yerevan, when one starts calling someone \"a proven racist\", homophobe, etc. - it means they've lost.

Congratulations.


[quote]BIGTURKEY wrote:
What are your views of Greater Armenia the Christian Kingdom?

BIGTURKEY wrote:
its a matter of time, as our populations carry on increasing at its rapid rate in the West and we found our own civil movements groups and Lobby's we will be able to crush those pathetic Dashneks puny lies and show the world the realities. They said Cyprus could never be liberated, 15 years we told them just wait and see, who had the last laugh.[/quote]


Concheet wrote:
[quote]I keep hearing from BT and others a \"call to arms\" against Cyprus... a drumming up of hatred against Armenia, against the Greeks... for what purpose?

Is it my imagination or are both Greek Cyprus and Armenia small Christian enclaves surrounded by Muslims? Is this perhaps a reason? could it really be related to some Islamic fundamentalists of this nature? [/quote]

Concheets point has been proved twice already. Case closed!

Never mind though as the BIG losers get a consolation prize:

[Mordoth]

Pan-turks are no muslims, christians, jews, or w/e religion. Pan-turkism is a secular idealogy much like Nazism.

SHAME ON YOU " SHAH - I MERDHAN " !!! REZIL RUSVA pers !!!

[concheet]

If that is true, please explain why BIGTURK found it necessary to say this:

BIGTURK
Member Joined: 17 Apr 2005
Posts: 3139
Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 6:29 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hanim, what can you expect from Yerevan, a proven racist, shovanist, homophobe

A great ambassador for his people.

Yerevan how do you feel about your troops being involved in this genocide and the ethnic cleansing policy of Armenia?

What are your views of Greater Armenia the Christian Kingdom?

http://middleeastinfo.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6327

Why does BIGTURK refer to the "Muslim Bow Around Cyprus" and "The Christian Kingdom" of Armenia? So what else doe Cyprus and Armenia have in common with Turkey besides the fact that they both claim to have been massacred and ethnically cleansed by Turks, and Turks claim to have been massacred and ethnically cleansed by them!

Now I realise you people do not speak for BIGTURK, but in general you seem to echo him and shower his opinions with praise and affirmation. Perhaps you would understand what it is he is trying to portray here, besides his usual ugly name-calling and personalisation in lieu of argument? Hmmmmm? Can I get an answer here? Anyone?

[Mordoth]

Why does BIGTURK refer to the \"Muslim Bow Around Cyprus\" and \"The Christian Kingdom\" of Armenia? So what else does Cyprus and Armenia have in common with Turkey besides the fact that they both claim to have been massacred and ethnically cleansed by Turks, and Turks claim to have been massacred and ethnically cleansed by them!

Now I realise you people do not speak for BIGTURK, but in general you seem to echo him and shower his opinions with praise and affirmation. Perhaps you would understand what it is he is trying to portray here, besides his usual ugly name-calling and personalisation in lieu of argument? Hmmmmm? Can I get an answer here? Anyone?

I was not collocutor of you , respectfully i need to answer it .
Armenians started to cleanse TURKS with gangs from 1860s to 1920s . Nearly 5 MILLION TURKs were victims of that holocaust . I had today's news from a newspaper in Turkey which is declared by Turkkaya Ataov in ATAA ( American - Turkish collaboration organization )
Cyprus holocaust started from the date , when English declared to evacuate island . Cyprus is only 70 km from TURKs and 1100 km from greece . It belong to Turks 'cuz the island is a part of Anatolia . Okay ? We do not deny international pacts . We are garanteur citizens and we liberated north Cyprus . That's all . Roums cleansed us as we did after them ...

[PhilinFL]

Mordoth alleged:
<<Armenians started to cleanse TURKS with gangs from 1860s to 1920s . Nearly 5 MILLION TURKs were victims of that holocaust . >>

SOURCE, PLEASE??!!

[concheet]

Mordoth:
>>Armenians started to cleanse TURKS with gangs from 1860s to 1920s . Nearly 5 MILLION TURKs were victims of that holocaust .

WHOA! Let's have that source please, or retract!

[Azertos]

If that is true, please explain why BIGTURK found it necessary to say this:

BIGTURK
Member Joined: 17 Apr 2005
Posts: 3139
Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 6:29 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hanim, what can you expect from Yerevan, a proven racist, shovanist, homophobe

A great ambassador for his people.

Yerevan how do you feel about your troops being involved in this genocide and the ethnic cleansing policy of Armenia?

What are your views of Greater Armenia the Christian Kingdom?

http://middleeastinfo.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6327

Why does BIGTURK refer to the \"Muslim Bow Around Cyprus\" and \"The Christian Kingdom\" of Armenia? So what else doe Cyprus and Armenia have in common with Turkey besides the fact that they both claim to have been massacred and ethnically cleansed by Turks, and Turks claim to have been massacred and ethnically cleansed by them!

Now I realise you people do not speak for BIGTURK, but in general you seem to echo him and shower his opinions with praise and affirmation. Perhaps you would understand what it is he is trying to portray here, besides his usual ugly name-calling and personalisation in lieu of argument? Hmmmmm? Can I get an answer here? Anyone?

ok concheet, now we're discussing about the human behaviour, in this case it's about BIGTURK, about his ''ugly-name calling replies''. he's also a person with feelings just like anyone else in this forum, come on, don't tell me you've never called anyone with bad-names, righhht?? so pls don't gimme that ''holy'' crap thing, nobody's holy, and that reply is been taking from the thread about the azeri genocide, we get angry about what happend 15 or 16 years ago, so it's normal to get angry, you would do the same. for further questions ask that from BT, i'm not his assistant.
Why does BIGTURK refer to the ''Muslim bow Around'' and " The Christian Kingdom of Armenia''?
Hhhhm, what do you mean ?? what's the logic behind this question?

Yes i agree with you, in general i do seem to echo my fellow BIGTURk, because i have a lot of respect for him, it's because he understands our problems, our pain, he is a friend in need, just like many other turks, in times we were searching for help, turkish people were the first to come and help, i never forget favours done to my nation, my country!

[Yerevan]

Mordoth:
>>Armenians started to cleanse TURKS with gangs from 1860s to 1920s . Nearly 5 MILLION TURKs were victims of that holocaust .

WHOA! Let's have that source please, or retract!

[/size]SOURCE?[size=24]

[chase]

Mordoth:
>>Armenians started to cleanse TURKS with gangs from 1860s to 1920s . Nearly 5 MILLION TURKs were victims of that holocaust .

WHOA! Let's have that source please, or retract!

[/size]SOURCE?[size=24]

SOURCE OR RETRACT!!!

[BIGTURK]

Oooooh the Ignorance is beginning to stink in this forum.

Its like your brains cannot take in basic knowledge, this isnt rocket science, read c-a-r-e-f-u-l-l-y.

Con-cheet referring to Pan-Turkism

Thrace, Bati, Armenia, Cyprus, Azerbaycan

Firstly its extremly naive to think Turks only live in Turkey, there are around 250/300 million Turks world wide living in a Geographical region from the Western China to the Danube.

Now Turkic\" did not exist before the Stalinist era. Today, the term \"Turkish\" is most commonly associated with the Turks of Turkey and eastern Europe, while before the establishment of the Soviet Union, \"Turkish\" meant all \"Turkic\" peoples of the world. In the Turkish languages, there is no distinction between Turkish/Turkic. When referring to the different dialects of the Turks, the term Turkish is used (for example the language of the Azerbaijanis is Azerbaijani-Turkish and the language of the Uygurs is Uygur-Turkish.)

Withing our society we see each other all as Turk, when I talk to my Azeri brother, for eg. Azeri Turk kardasim yaxshimisin?, translated my Azeri Turkish brother how are you, we dont divide our people into Turkic or Turcic or any other divisive term, were Turks.

The Oghuz Turks, or Oguz Turks (Okuz, Oufoi, Guozz, Ghuzz) are regarded as one of the major branches of the Turks in history.  

The Oguz Turks are the ancestors of today's western Turks who number more than 120 million and inhabit areas in western Asia and eastern Europe: Azerbaijanis of the Republic of Azerbaijan and the South Azerbaijan region of Iran, Turks of Turkey and Cyprus, Turkmens of Turkmenistan and northeastern Iran, Qashqay and Khurasani Turks of Iran, Balkan Turks of the former Yugoslavia and Gauguz (Gokoguz) Turks of Moldova.

Wiki

There were earlier Turk migrations starting from Sumer's, then the Huns, the Khazars, the Gok Turks and others before the massive migration of the Legendary Oghuz Clans. However, when the Oghuz Clans adopted Islam all the Turks united and become one and so the Turks of the Middle East/Balkans are of the Western Turk branch of Oghuz. From the Legendary Oguz Clans came the Great Selcuks, Selcuks of the Rum, Artukids, Ak/Karakoyunlu, Safavids, Afsharids, Ghaznivid etc.

So if we look at it there are 120 million Turks in this immediate region alone, thats without getting to Central Asia.

Now seen as though Turkey's population is 70 million and the Turks contitute between 55/60 million, this leaves over 60 million Turks in the immediate region outside of Turkey.

Meaning when we write that Bati Trakya is majority Turkish, Eastern Bulgarian is majority Turkish, that there are 30 million Turks in Iran the Turk state Azerbeycan has 10 million, Irak 3 million, Syria and Cyprus 500,000 and substantial populations across the middle east/Balkans, any logical open minded thinking person can figure out that its a simple reality.

We are not trying to claim lands in which our people dont exist, there is no point its ridiculous, all I explain is that there is a very large Turkish population outside Turkey which some narrow minded, ignorant people are finding very hard to grasp.

So for people like Persian to have the AUDACITY to call an Azeri a Racist, a Pan-Turkish, a Lier, a Hitler a Nazi just for simply saying he or she is a Turk is actually what is sick and racist.

You can not change who people are, or force them to, it simply will never ever work.

The reason Pers foams at the mouth at any mention of Kurd or Turk aspirations is because he fears that the Monopoly of power the \"minority\" Persians hold over the non-Persian majority of Iran will come to an end.

Con-cheet
Why does BIGTURK refer to the \"Muslim Bow Around Cyprus\"

??

Have I? please show me, I was referring to Greece, to have a bow around Cyprus is geographically impossible please.... its an Island you know.

Now the nations around Greece and the People have suffered extreme oppression from Greeks and Slavs, like Milosovich etc

Before there was Yugoslavia but now it collapsed and what I refer to is a fact.

There is a Muslim bow now around Greece, Albania, Kosovo, Western Thrace and in Macedonia but Macedons are mostly Christians but still our dearest brother nation.

You see Macedonia claims Greece occupies most of its land, Greece doesnt recognise Macedonia as a Country. Albania claims the same and wants apologies for the Genocide inflicted against its people and there are 1 million Albanians in Greece. The Turks are a majority in Western Thrace and in other parts of Greece Gypsiees get it bad.

Conny
I keep hearing from BT and others a \"call to arms\" against Cyprus... a drumming up of hatred against Armenia, against the Greeks... for what purpose?  

Is it my imagination or are both Greek Cyprus and Armenia small Christian enclaves surrounded by Muslims? Is this perhaps a reason? could it really be related to some Islamic fundamentalists of this nature?

Firstly I am not calling for a "call to arms" against Cyprus, use your head and figure out, theres no need, Kibris is ours our people are liberated, Greeks have there side every1's happy, all we want now is recognition which is round the corner

We have no aspirations in Armenia, Turks dont live in Armenia, were just concerned with Azeri land of Karabak which is occupied by Armenia and the Genocide they commite there.

Firstly Cyprus is an Island its surrounded by sea not land

Secondly Armenia has Christian border Georgia, do you know who Georgias best allies are yep the Turks, we have always had good relations with the Gurju and they have suffered to the Armenians aswell.

Georgia has no relations with Armenia and a closed border, are they Muslims fundamentalists aswell

Con-cheet you understand nothing about us and Islam withing our societies, do you have any knowledge of Tasaavuuf? or Sufi;ism and the teaching of Love and Tolerance.

Read your history, Bayezid II was a pious religious Muslim leader of the Ottomans, look at what he did fro the Jews aswell as Suleyman the Magnificent and the QizilBash and Bektashi and Mevlana and others and learn about Islam and Muslim Turks before you embarrass yourself with ignorant nonsense your blabbering about "what you think Turks are like".

Its hard to change the mind of a racist but hey all we can do is try....

[concheet]

I think I will stick to the 20th & 21st century. Suleyman and QizilBash are best left in their own centuries and enjoyed in your historical fiction readings...

who are you calling a racist, anyway? you are the one always taking about the various clans and your Turkish brothers...

[Mordoth]

www.ermeni-sorunu.gen.tr
here see how ( by pioneers of russian armenis) the armenian question

[BIGTURK]

Con-cheet
I think I will stick to the 20th & 21st century. Suleyman and QizilBash are best left in their own centuries

History is very important Con-cheet, if it wasnt for history and people decided everything was just from the past and fantasised nonsense everyone would have forgotten about the Judea of thousands of years ago, so its up to you, do we forget history and allow our selves to be lost and have no idea of who we are and our identity or do we learn our history like the Jews who wanted to found Israel did, if it werent for this there would be no Israel so make up your mind what is it to be?

Knowledge is power.

So I will stick to the modern age but learn my history in depth and no my brothers and people and why say we have close ties and connections with Pakistani's, Bengals, Indonesians, Malaysians, people of the Maghreb, peoples of the Balkans

Now I know what I have written has sinken in but you'll never actually admit your wrong so I accept your silence as your apology and acceptance of the errors of your ways.

[concheet]

History is important Turk, but not your fanciful version of it. Israel is a state that was founded in 1948. It doesn't need a prior history to exist. It exists. I know it is a thorn in the side of your Arab/Muslim/Turkish brothers, but you had better get used to it.

You are right that knowledge is power. It is a matter of knowing just what is knowledge and what is not. So far, your history is merely a vehicle to push forward your Turkish agenda. As long as history is not in service to the TRUTH, it will not serve you well at all.

[BIGTURK]

This is getting more and more ridiculous as it goes on

Con-cheet
History is important Turk, but not your fanciful version of it. Israel is a state that was founded in 1948. It doesn't need a prior history to exist. It exists.

Could you please tell me then what is the point of Israel being founded in the land it is today? Your wildly mistaken, it is the sole reason of prior history which is the reason why Israel today exists.

If there had never had been a Jewish state all those thousands of years ago you wouldnt have had a leg to stand on in claiming it today would you and try to be honest with us Conny.

So Israel really does need prior history to exist, as the majority of people in the land prior to 1948 were not Jewish so Israel wasnt founded on the basis there was a majority Jewish population which wanted to rule its own.

Therefore I'd be wise when dismissing history Conny, cos if we were all to do that then the thesis for Israel existing vanishes into as you put it fanciful stories of the past

Please make up your mind of what it is to be, or is it one of those its fine when it suits me but not fine when it doesnt type arguments your trying to use again

The basis of a Turkish Union inface is not merely based on History, History is just one part of the parcel, the fact is there is a majority Turk population in these lands many of whom were untill recently under Russian occupation, there are now 7 Turk states, its not about history its about todays realities, there is a big Turkish population and if we wish to form a Union and unite why do you have a problem with this???

[concheet]

Right Turk, the old "Majority" situation. I understand. Just like the American Indian is really Turkish, so after awhile you will have an excuse to claim US as well. The Muslim population loves the 'majority' rule thing. They go to a country like the Philipines, have a bunch of wives and even more kids and eventually they are the majority in an area and want to own it!

We know how that works.

[BIGTURK]

Goodness me, this really is getting unbelievable.

Con-cheet
Right Turk, the old \"Majority\" situation. I understand. Just like the American Indian is really Turkish, so after awhile you will have an excuse to claim US as well. The Muslim population loves the 'majority' rule thing.

So now your argument moves on after being proved wrong countless times to the issue ot the "Majority" situation. Well we have always been the majority in Turkestan/Central Asia well before becomming Muslim.

Aswell as this when the Legendary Oguz started a mass migration to the Near East/Middle East region and when many were invited by the Abbassid Caliph at the time we hadnt yet declared Islam as our religion. So it just proves your assumptions about Muslims wrong.

Now your arguments really do express a severed tone of Paranoia.

We do not claim Native American Nations to be 100% Turkish, If you ever read anything a mass Turk migration to the America's happened and they mixed and fused with the Aboriginees and South Pacific peoples who had also migrated to the America's.

Now only this but the Turks which migrated their did this thousands of years ago.

When I state they have Turk origins I'm just being real, its a simple fact.

It doesnt require you having deluded paranoid ideas thinking we somehow claim them to be part of todays Turk nation its simply nonsense. They dont speak Turkish, identify themselves as Turks and have been cut off from us for thousands of years. So you have no need to worry.

Now Conny we lay a historical claim, a majority claim, I mean forget all this the land we wanna unite is populated by Turks, they live there today its not about history its about todays realities, there is a big Turkish population and if we wish to form a Union and unite why do you have a problem with this???

[concheet]

if we wish to form a Union and unite why do you have a problem with this???

I have a big problem with that turkey, because if you merely 'united' to help each other, take care of the sick and the poor etc, that would be different. but with you guys it's never like that. It is always to dominate and chase out or kill the rest of the population.

The perfect example is what you are doing to the Kurds in your country whom you are trying to kill culturally and ethnically. As long as the minority under your domination do not have full equal rights, I will always hold that you have no right to be dominant over other groups.

[BIGTURK]

Con-cheet
have a big problem with that turkey, because if you merely 'united' to help each other, take care of the sick and the poor etc, that would be different. but with you guys it's never like that. It is always to dominate and chase out or kill the rest of the population.

Con-cheet do you actually realise the extreme level of your double standards.

As the matter of fact the Kurds ruin what ever they touch and they are being more destructive than constructive.

Is deemed by you to be totally unacceptable and racist by YOU, yet its exactly what you say about Turks in the quote above, either what you are saying is also totally unaccepable and racist or your just telling lies and its one rule for some and another for others.

Your still not getting it, this isnt about Turkiye, its about TUrks uniting to benefit the people, we dont need big conspiracy stories and paranoid ideas. We wanna unite Turks in lands were Turks reside, if you ever read anything I wrote I clearly said Kurds should rule and govern themselves if they wish in areas they are a majority.

So your story stands no ground, how can you accuse us of wanting to dominating each other, were all Turks this isnt anything to do with Pollitics this is to do with Turk people uniting and working together in a Union in which the population is Turkish now do you have a problem with this still?

[Dîrî]

[quote=BIGTURK]
[quote]Con-cheet
have a big problem with that turkey, because if you merely 'united' to help each other, take care of the sick and the poor etc, that would be different. but with you guys it's never like that. It is always to dominate and chase out or kill the rest of the population.[/quote]

Con-cheet do you actually realise the extreme level of your double standards.

[quote][b][size=24]As the matter of fact the Kurds ruin what ever they touch and they are being more destructive than constructive.

Is deemed by you to be totally unacceptable and racist by YOU, yet its exactly what you say about Turks in the quote above, either what you are saying is also totally unaccepable and racist or your just telling lies and its one rule for some and another for others.

Your still not getting it, this isnt about Turkiye, its about TUrks uniting to benefit the people, we dont need big conspiracy stories and paranoid ideas. We wanna unite Turks in lands were Turks reside, if you ever read anything I wrote I clearly said Kurds should rule and govern themselves if they wish in areas they are a majority.

So your story stands no ground, how can you accuse us of wanting to dominating each other, were all Turks this isnt anything to do with Pollitics this is to do with Turk people uniting and working together in a Union in which the population is Turkish now do you have a problem with this still?[/quote]

Emrah... Don't YOU think it is a RASCIST thing to say?

Maybe you don't think so - since your Torkoman brother said it...

Besides Emrah - stop comparing support for Kurds to supporting Turks... You HAVE states... Like 10 of them... Kurds have NONE... So you can't compare support for Kurdish state to support for Turkic Union... See? "UNION" and "STAT" - two different things...

Demanding Kurds have their cultural rights, human rights and political rights is NOT the same as demanding a UNION for Turkic countries... Those two couldn't be further apart...

Besides - it is TURKEY which should be ashamed... It is the real hypocrit - saying Greeks and Bulgarians and Armenian oppress Turks - and at the SAME TIME - Turkey is oppressing the KURDS... Remember?

[BIGTURK]

Diri I was just highlighting Con-cheets hypocrisisys, she condemns Mofak but then uses exactly the same tone of language against Turks.

[Dîrî]

Well... Don't YOU condemn saying something as RASCIST as what Mofak wrote?

Why don't you adress my points? I am putting facts on the table... Turkey oppresses Kurds - says it's okey to do - and then accuses others of oppressing Turks... How hypocrit isn't that?

[chase]

Well... Don't YOU condemn saying something as RASCIST as what Mofak wrote?

Why don't you adress my points? I am putting facts on the table... Turkey oppresses Kurds - says it's okey to do - and then accuses others of oppressing Turks... How hypocrit isn't that?

There's no consistency nor honesty where this dudes concerned diri. He's been taught from childhood this mob-think mentality - individual rights - what's that...