Russian Mercinaries In Azeri Service...karabakh War, azeris employed russian and ukranian mercinaries..naughty naughty Options

[Hosank]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEuDSRpPI0U&eurl
for those of you who understand russian

[Glock21]

This is quite true. I have a Russian friend, former Soviet Naval Infantry, who served in Karabakh for the Azeris. In a strange twist, I have met on two separate occasions, Russian former Soviet officers who served as kontraktniki for the Armenians.

The contract-warfighter phenomenon is nothing new, but a growing trend I think.

[Hosank]

well since the breakup of the soviet union, jobless soldiers could get a good pay, vacation and spending money in the azeri army..

i don't know what their conditions were with the armenians.
i don't know either if russian soldiers fought as individual mercenaries in armenian units, or as regitments, under russian command. (i think the last one is more probable, though im sure both happened)

not to be bias, but there were quite a deal less russians fighting with the armenians then azeris, since 1) armenia was not officially in the war at the time, and neither armenia nor artsakh had any money to pay them. most of the fighting done on the armenian side was by payless armenian farmers, and villagers of artsakh turned farmers. till, in 1993, armenian regulars began to enter the war.

[Glock21]

I think you are probably right in terms of there being more ex-Soviet kontraktniki for the Azeris than the Armenians.

[Hosank]

yah, i find it ironic how the azeris accuse armenians of getting help from russia and using russian units, yet the azeris are those who used most of the russian help.

also, the soviet defence plan for the former USSR was that since armenia was right on the border with NATO turkey, in the event of a war, armenia would be the battle ground, and thus, very few weapons, armies, and airfields were stationed in armenia, as opposed to azerbaijan which had all of that.

so when the war started, azerbaijan had planes tanks, guns and so on, and the ROA had almost nothing, and the artsakh defenders...HAD NOTHING. they started the war in 1989 with hunting rifles and hand made weapons. all the tanks, artillery and diverse weaponry of russian manifacture they got (which lead the azeris to claim russian aid to the armenians) were actually captured from azeris.

russian and armenian aid to the artsakh fedayis did not come till about 1993.

[Glock21]

Well there is evidence of Russian direct involvement on the side of the Armenians (not contract soldiers but regular army) that there never was for the Azeris. It is true that the Soviet Army was at first conducting joint operations with the Azeri OMON against unrest and potential political violence in Karabakh in 88-89, but after the disintegration of the USSR, Russian Army units were somewhat undisciplined and had a chaotic command structure, and joined in the fight against the Azeris along religious and nationalistic ties. Literally platoons were splitting along old lines - Kazakhs, Uzbeks, Dagestanis either went AWOL or refused to fight since the conduct was taking on a religious tone.

And it is documented that Russian troops participated in civilian atrocities in the same way that atrocities against Armenians are documented.

[Hosank]

yes that is possible, as well as typical of post soviet ethnic conflicts. attrocities happened on all sides. even armenians may have commited some (though this xojaly thing is obviously completely exagerated and is only a propaganda tool used by azerbaijan)

i guess that individual russian soldiers would have as you said nationalistic and religious reasons to fight on the armenian side. but ... there were also muslim tatar russians and so on.
but as i said before, there wasn't any clear russian support for the armenian cause till about 1993, and again, russia still claimed to be a mediator of sorts.
you keep speaking of documentations, it would be nice if you could share some.

[Glock21]

If you want documentation, you can research the service records of the Soviet and then Russian military forces in the region, pre Armenia's joining of the CIS and after.

For example, the exploits of the 366th Motorized Infantry are notorious. In addition, the Soviet 4th Army basically turned into an Armenian spearhead against the Azeris, after the CIS joining, usurping its role of peacekeeper.

[Hosank]

yes, so i hear

[veritas]

This is quite true. I have a Russian friend, former Soviet Naval Infantry, who served in Karabakh for the Azeris. In a strange twist, I have met on two separate occasions, Russian former Soviet officers who served as kontraktniki for the Armenians.

The contract-warfighter phenomenon is nothing new, but a growing trend I think.

sure is, US is useing Blackwater for a massive portion of their warfighting at the moment.


There are mixed reports but not many are good, they do not have the transparency that the regular military have......but i digress.

Russian mercs worked both sides of the fence in typical russian fashion.

as did many other foriegn national during this conflict and Armenia still has not signed the accord whcih forbids it doing so.

smart move, why in the hell would you?

[Glock21]

The US uses companies like Blackwater for diplomatic and personell security, area security, and a host of other combat support functions, because it is cheaper than using soldiers for it. They do not nor have ever entered into sanctioned offensive warfighting - not their mandate. They have fought on countless occasions, and many contractors have been killed, but in a largely defensive role. But as you mentioned, with little DOD oversight, many contractors have committed crimes that have gone unpunished.

[veritas]

That is whats on the books, Blackwater has attack helicopters in it arsenal.

They are always going to be up to more than they admit.

but probably less than i assume.

[Glock21]

That is whats on the books, Blackwater has attack helicopters in it arsenal.

Nope. All they have are transports and Little Birds for the QRF's.

[veritas]

Are you saying that they dont fly gunships in columbia?

As the U.S. military wages the war on terrorism, it is increasingly relying on for-profit companies like Blackwater to do work normally performed by soldiers. Defense contractors now do more than simply build airplanes -- they maintain those planes on the battlefield and even fly them in some of the world's most troubled conflict zones. Private military companies supply bodyguards for the president of Afghanistan, construct detention camps to hold suspected terrorists at Guantanamo Bay, and pilot armed reconnaissance planes and helicopter gunships to eradicate coca crops in Colombia. They operate the intelligence and communications systems at the U.S. Northern Command in Colorado, which is responsible for coordinating a response to any attack on the United States. And licensed by the State Department, they are contracting with foreign governments, training soldiers and reorganizing militaries in Nigeria, Bulgaria, Taiwan, and Equatorial Guinea.

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/20.../ma_365_01.html


I am beginning to think you just disagree for the sake of it,


"The US uses companies like Blackwater for diplomatic and personell security, area security, and a host of other combat support functions, because it is cheaper than using soldiers for it. They do not nor have ever entered into sanctioned offensive warfighting - not their mandate."

What a load of crap.

Blackwater USA is a private military company and security firm. Founded in 1997 by Erik Prince and Al Clark, it is based in North Carolina. The company markets itself as being "The most comprehensive professional military, law enforcement, security, peacekeeping, and stability operations company in the world". Blackwater USA and its operations are the object of controversy and debate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackwater_USA


It is a well known fact that they are pushing to be the peacekeeping force sent to Darfur.

They train the US Navy for god sake.

They were still sent to fallujah even after the ###### went down so all the mandate in the world will not convince anyone with half a brain that they are NOT being used for pec op that the US needs limited accountability for.

[Glock21]

Yes, I am saying they don't fly gunships in open theater war in the context and role of offensive operations. As in your post, they do train pilots and fly missions themselves in Colombia to "eradicate the coca crops"... hardly your implication of warfighting in Iraq or Afghanistan.

I am glad you posted the wiki link to Blackwater, it wholly proves my point; thanks.

And do point our some examples of their offensive operations in theater. Here's your chance to be a hero - crowds of lawmakers in Washington would drool over such proof.