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Child Pornography, Abuse, And Prostitution In Turkey, ………….When will the state do something about it?
Urartu
post 07/01/07 08:10 PM
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Here are some statements in the article:

Turkish towns rank in the first five places in searches for the string “child porn.”

The nation was struck with revulsion, disgust and feelings of retaliation, when news hit the media that a 17-month old baby girl had been raped by three men, in the presence of her mother, two months ago.

In recent years, there has been increased awareness on the issue of commercial and sexual exploitation of children in Turkey, according to a paper on child abuse by the Yeniden Sağlık
ve Eğitim Derneği

The 84-page report found that forcing children into prostitution was the main form of sexual exploitation of children.

The report found that the most widely abused group of children was girls between 12 and 18 years old, but that there was also a substantial number of boys who were victims of sexual abuse.

“Child prostitution occurs in a variety of locales, ranging from slums to the rich”





http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=61792
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post 07/02/07 04:23 AM
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http://www.asiansexgazette.com/asg/central...sia02news35.htm

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2006/10/08/turkey-teacher.html

http://edition.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/1...porn/index.html

The last link from CNN relates to an operation that included over 130 points and more than a few nations police forces coordinated arrest operations.
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post 07/02/07 04:33 AM
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And please quote all of the sentence, not just one part of it...

Although Turkey's great performance on Google searches outdoing all other nations and a number of child abuse scandals this year might suggest otherwise, in recent years, there has been increased awareness on the issue of commercial and sexual exploitation of children in Turkey, according to a paper on child abuse by the Yeniden Sağlık ve Eğitim Derneği (Yeniden Health and Education Society) and ECPAT International, a nongovernmental organization fighting to end sexual abuse of minors.

http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=61792

The page is from a Turkish newspaper so we are already doing something right icon_smile.gif
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Urartu
post 07/02/07 01:26 PM
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http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=61792

I am happy that they are conducting operations to help, but since the there is so mush abuse, trafficking, and porn of children it’s hard to control. Some people in Turkey are taking a stand and doing something about it but there is no national plan and the laws that they do have are not being well in forced.

According to Yücel, Turkey does not currently have a national action plan to fight commercial and sexual exploitation of children, adding that forming such an action plan is crucial for the systemic prevention of child abuse cases as well as for protection and re-integration of victims. “The Security Directorate has a unit dealing with this, chaired by İbrahim Sarı. They work together with the Interpol. There are provisions under the Turkish Penal Code, then there is the Child Protection Law, which also regulates preventive measures to protect children from all kinds of abuse. There are also laws guaranteeing that child victims of abuse acquire all sorts of physical and psychological treatment and rehabilitation free of charge, but unfortunately, these laws are not being enforced systematically.”
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post 07/02/07 02:02 PM
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QUOTE(Urartu @ 07/02/07 10:26 PM) [snapback]113104[/snapback]
http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=61792

I am happy that they are conducting operations to help......

According to Yücel, ......


I am happy that you are happy:)

Who is Yucel ?
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post 07/02/07 02:03 PM
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Urartu where are you from ?
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Urartu
post 07/02/07 04:29 PM
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QUOTE(arrow @ 07/02/07 01:02 PM) [snapback]113114[/snapback]
Who is Yucel ?


I don't know, he was just in the article....

And what does it matter where I live?
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post 07/02/07 04:50 PM
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QUOTE(Urartu @ 07/03/07 01:29 AM) [snapback]113126[/snapback]
I don't know, he was just in the article....

And what does it matter where I live?



Who is Yucel was not a question but a remark. He is no one. I did a quick search about him and his article holds no documentary value but hearsay. That is why I asked it...

It doesn't matter, just wanted to know where in Turkiye you live.
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Urartu
post 07/02/07 06:49 PM
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QUOTE(arrow @ 07/02/07 03:50 PM) [snapback]113129[/snapback]
Who is Yucel was not a question but a remark. He is no one. I did a quick search about him and his article holds no documentary value but hearsay. That is why I asked it...



Let me guess. He is a Turk whos spreading propaganda to humiliate Turkey?


QUOTE(arrow @ 07/02/07 03:50 PM) [snapback]113129[/snapback]
It doesn't matter, just wanted to know where in Turkiye you live.



smiley14.gif
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post 07/03/07 01:48 AM
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QUOTE(Urartu @ 07/03/07 03:49 AM) [snapback]113135[/snapback]
Let me guess. He is a Turk whos spreading propaganda to humiliate Turkey?
smiley14.gif


Well I don't feel humiliated. I'd feel humiliated if you'd go to court , sue us and win your case but not this.

EE nerde yaşıyorsun, İstanbul mu ?
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Urartu
post 07/06/07 07:33 PM
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QUOTE(arrow @ 07/03/07 12:48 AM) [snapback]113141[/snapback]
Well I don't feel humiliated. I'd feel humiliated if you'd go to court , sue us and win your case but not this.


HAHAHA, once again. I wasn’t asking you if you felt humiliated. I won’t even bother telling you what the question was. Maybe if you go back and read the sentence REALLY HARD you can find it.

QUOTE(arrow @ 07/03/07 12:48 AM) [snapback]113141[/snapback]
EE nerde yaşıyorsun, İstanbul mu ?


Gotta quit that stuff man.... It's starting to make you speak in tongs.
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post 07/08/07 05:03 AM
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QUOTE(Urartu @ 07/07/07 04:33 AM) [snapback]113314[/snapback]
HAHAHA, once again. I wasn’t asking you if you felt humiliated. I won’t even bother telling you what the question was. Maybe if you go back and read the sentence REALLY HARD you can find it.
Gotta quit that stuff man.... It's starting to make you speak in tongs.



Don't try so hard and nevermind....
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Urartu
post 07/09/07 03:07 AM
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QUOTE(arrow @ 07/08/07 04:03 AM) [snapback]113385[/snapback]
Don't try so hard and nevermind....



Alright? I’m not trying hard, you’re just really easy to argue with. And I’m guessing your not going to answer so whatever….
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post 07/11/07 04:43 AM
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QUOTE(Urartu @ 07/09/07 12:07 PM) [snapback]113431[/snapback]
Alright? I’m not trying hard, you’re just really easy to argue with. And I’m guessing your not going to answer so whatever….



Answer what? And remember this is a forum, we are exchanging info here, not fighting.
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Urartu
post 07/12/07 06:51 PM
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QUOTE(arrow @ 07/11/07 03:43 AM) [snapback]113526[/snapback]
Answer what?


It wasn’t really a question. I was just saying, “Why would a Turk make up these things about Turkey?” You were saying he is nobody, but then again most people who write articles online and in newspapers are nobody.


QUOTE(arrow @ 07/11/07 03:43 AM) [snapback]113526[/snapback]
And remember this is a forum, we are exchanging info here, not fighting.


A forum is also to discuss and debate. I don’t know what debate means in your book but in my book and the dictionary it means argue.
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intergalacticman
post 07/13/07 05:24 PM
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clearly a revenge post to arrow's "kids health in armenia" if i am not mistaken
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Urartu
post 07/13/07 05:44 PM
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QUOTE(intergalacticman @ 07/13/07 04:24 PM) [snapback]113618[/snapback]
clearly a revenge post to arrow's "kids health in armenia" if i am not mistaken


Duuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhh........
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post 07/15/07 05:42 PM
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QUOTE(intergalacticman @ 07/14/07 02:24 AM) [snapback]113618[/snapback]
clearly a revenge post to arrow's "kids health in armenia" if i am not mistaken



Anything goes since they will open our minds to different ideas. Though eventually all topics turn into a piss contest icon_smile.gif
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post 07/15/07 05:49 PM
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QUOTE(Urartu @ 07/13/07 03:51 AM) [snapback]113580[/snapback]
It wasn’t really a question. I was just saying, “Why would a Turk make up these things about Turkey?” You were saying he is nobody, but then again most people who write articles online and in newspapers are nobody.
A forum is also to discuss and debate. I don’t know what debate means in your book but in my book and the dictionary it means argue.



I told that he is nobody becouse I never heard about him before and no, it is ermeni people who disgrace anyone that goes against their ideas. As happened in Tall Armenian Tale web page, or the proffersor that had to literraly flee out of USA just becouse he said there was no genocide ( Professor Justin McCarthy ), or civilians killed by ASALA for thesame reason...

Me, as I said to many times, will stict to the documents till we find better sources than the ones at the hand.

PS: Indeed debate is aruge but we'd really do much more progress if we stick to the topics rahter than making a mess of things, do you not agree ?
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Urartu
post 07/17/07 12:15 AM
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QUOTE(arrow @ 07/15/07 04:49 PM) [snapback]113721[/snapback]
I told that he is nobody becouse I never heard about him before


He isn’t nobody because YOU haven’t heard of him. And like I said, most people who write articles online and in newspapers are nobody. And this was not even the guy who wrote the article. He was just I guy that was quoted in the article. Do you really except him to be some world famous information guru just because they quoted him in an article? Or did he just say something you don’t want to believe?


QUOTE(arrow @ 07/15/07 04:49 PM) [snapback]113721[/snapback]
it is ermeni people who disgrace anyone that goes against their ideas. As happened in Tall Armenian Tale web page, or the proffersor that had to literraly flee out of USA just becouse he said there was no genocide ( Professor Justin McCarthy ), or civilians killed by ASALA for thesame reason...


Dude, that is completely off topic. I was talking about a TURK disgracing TURKEY. And I was asking why a TURK would do/say that if it wasn’t true. And somehow you managed to bring up Armenians and start talking about how we are against your ideas.

C’mon Arrow, how can I debate with you if you change the topic in just 2 posts?

And when exactly did Justin McCarthy have to flee the US?


QUOTE(arrow @ 07/15/07 04:49 PM) [snapback]113721[/snapback]
Me, as I said to many times, will stict to the documents till we find better sources than the ones at the hand.


Could you send me your documents?


QUOTE(arrow @ 07/15/07 04:49 PM) [snapback]113721[/snapback]
PS: Indeed debate is aruge but we'd really do much more progress if we stick to the topics rahter than making a mess of things, do you not agree ?


Yes we would. SO STICK TO THE TOPIC!!!! And we’re not making a mess of thing by arguing on the forum. You’re just talking out of you azz again. Arrow, listen carefully, we have two different views of REALITY. Their is absolutely, positively, no way we can discuss this without arguing.
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post 07/17/07 02:21 AM
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QUOTE(Urartu @ 07/17/07 09:15 AM) [snapback]113799[/snapback]
He isn’t nobody because YOU haven’t heard of him. And like I said, most people who write articles online and in newspapers are nobody. And this was not even the guy who wrote the article. He was just I guy that was quoted in the article. Do you really except him to be some world famous information guru just because they quoted him in an article? Or did he just say something you don’t want to believe?
Dude, that is completely off topic. I was talking about a TURK disgracing TURKEY. And I was asking why a TURK would do/say that if it wasn’t true. And somehow you managed to bring up Armenians and start talking about how we are against your ideas.

C’mon Arrow, how can I debate with you if you change the topic in just 2 posts?

And when exactly did Justin McCarthy have to flee the US?
Could you send me your documents?
Yes we would. SO STICK TO THE TOPIC!!!! And we’re not making a mess of thing by arguing on the forum. You’re just talking out of you azz again. Arrow, listen carefully, we have two different views of REALITY. Their is absolutely, positively, no way we can discuss this without arguing.


Do you believe all you read on newspapers ?

So ermeni don't disgrace "deniers" of genocide eh ?

My bad, it was UCLA Professor Stanford Shaw's house they bombed, not the Irish guy. Will it make a difference really, they bombed another profs house for denying a genocide, good job.

Give me your adress and I will send you what I have.

I can't listen to a web page, do you mean read carefully icon_smile.gif

The thing is you will talk and talk and whine and whine but do nothing about it. You are just an other victim of a fantasy genocide and would loose all purpose if you arealised that there was no genocide... Just go on kiddo, consider me as your shrink and I'll be patient while you spend your time here wasting your energy with hate.

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Urartu
post 07/17/07 11:55 PM
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QUOTE(arrow @ 07/17/07 01:21 AM) [snapback]113814[/snapback]
Do you believe all you read on newspapers ?


Most of the time. And the New York Times is not exactly known for being bias. It’s one of the best. And why would the New York Times make this up?


QUOTE(arrow @ 07/17/07 01:21 AM) [snapback]113814[/snapback]
So ermeni don't disgrace "deniers" of genocide eh ?


God damn man! Obviously Armenians disgrace genocide deniers. Once again, I never denied that. But we were not talking about Armenians disgracing genocide deniers. We were talking about a TURK disgracing TURKEY! Not Armenians. TURKS! TURKS, TURKS, TURKS, UNDERSTAND?!?!


QUOTE(arrow @ 07/17/07 01:21 AM) [snapback]113814[/snapback]
My bad, it was UCLA Professor Stanford Shaw's house they bombed, not the Irish guy. Will it make a difference really, they bombed another profs house for denying a genocide, good job.


I know seriously…


QUOTE(arrow @ 07/17/07 01:21 AM) [snapback]113814[/snapback]
Give me your adress and I will send you what I have.


If you really do have something than take a picture of it and post it. You know I won’t give you my address. That’s would be dumb. But until you send me documents or any type of proof, I will be contributing more to my claim than you will by just talking. I’ll give you props though, you have a great vocabulary! But sadly how well you talk about history won’t change it. Neither an idiot nor an intellectual can change history.


QUOTE(arrow @ 07/17/07 01:21 AM) [snapback]113814[/snapback]
I can't listen to a web page, do you mean read carefully icon_smile.gif


lol, cute joke. icon_razz.gif


QUOTE(arrow @ 07/17/07 01:21 AM) [snapback]113814[/snapback]
The thing is you will talk and talk and whine and whine but do nothing about it. You are just an other victim of a fantasy genocide and would loose all purpose if you arealised that there was no genocide...


I debate here and send my documents. And if you are still expecting me to go to court, get real. And if you’re so obsessed with going to court, why don’t you go to court and prove the Canadian government wrong in their claims that the Armenian genocide is true? Let’s see if you’ll do it… Let’s see if you can PROVE it…..


QUOTE(arrow @ 07/17/07 01:21 AM) [snapback]113814[/snapback]
Just go on kiddo, consider me as your shrink and I'll be patient while you spend your time here wasting your energy with hate.


Sounds good to me…
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Urartu
post 07/18/07 12:00 AM
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P.S. I’m going to start a new topic in the Armenia section about the genocide. Post your evidence there…
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post 07/18/07 04:09 AM
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You are all wrong, you post what you believe to be evidence and I don't trust them. Then I post what I believe to be evidence and you don't trust them. There is no solution possible to satify both of us, so the conversation about a genocide fantasy, or even better , your land demands fantasy is waste of time.

About the court thing. I know very well that no ermeni or ermeni organisation nor ermenistan can take it to court. You will loose a trail so you try the political way. And even at that you suck, ermenistan and diaspora are struggling each other. You have no leadership and the possible leaders are ex thugs, mafia members.

Yes I know very well about Turkiye and ermenistan and diaspora. I have employees from diaspora and some Turkish ermeni. Unlike you I converse with them face to face. I don't have to hide myself and I never insult anyone, online or real life.

And as long as you keep talking about Turkiye, it will come back at ermeni people.

And for evidence, I am not a judge nor the accuser. Evidence must be a prrof of a thing happened. You need to prove your evidence and prove it in a court. But since you can never ever go to a court trial and depend on other ( as you did in WW1 to russia and france and USA ) nations/states you are bound to loose your strugle. Becouse in the global game of politics you are just a little player comparing to Turkiye.

So go prepare whatever you have ermeni and make your best shot. Make it a war or a court trial, in both you have no chance to win....
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Urartu
post 07/19/07 04:22 PM
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QUOTE(arrow @ 07/18/07 03:09 AM) [snapback]113877[/snapback]
You are all wrong, you post what you believe to be evidence and I don't trust them. Then I post what I believe to be evidence and you don't trust them.


I don’t recall you posting evidence…


QUOTE(arrow @ 07/18/07 03:09 AM) [snapback]113877[/snapback]
There is no solution possible to satify both of us, so the conversation about a genocide fantasy, or even better , your land demands fantasy is waste of time.


Many countries around the world have recognized the Genocide. So as far as I’m concerned, It’s not a waste of time.


QUOTE(arrow @ 07/18/07 03:09 AM) [snapback]113877[/snapback]
About the court thing. I know very well that no ermeni or ermeni organisation nor ermenistan can take it to court. You will loose a trail so you try the political way.


And, let’s just say you are right. Why don’t YOU go to court and PROVE to Canada that the Armenian allegations are false? If you are so confident then YOU do it. (p.s. ignoring my questions will get you nowhere in this discussion)


QUOTE(arrow @ 07/18/07 03:09 AM) [snapback]113877[/snapback]
And even at that you suck, ermenistan and diaspora are struggling each other.


Struggling each other? How?


QUOTE(arrow @ 07/18/07 03:09 AM) [snapback]113877[/snapback]
You have no leadership and the possible leaders are ex thugs, mafia members.


Really? Can you name me a few leaders in Armenia which are ex-thugs or Mafia members?


QUOTE(arrow @ 07/18/07 03:09 AM) [snapback]113877[/snapback]
Yes I know very well about Turkiye and ermenistan and diaspora.


I didn’t ask you if you did icon_rolleyes.gif


QUOTE(arrow @ 07/18/07 03:09 AM) [snapback]113877[/snapback]
I have employees from diaspora and some Turkish ermeni.


Exactly what is your job? You’re on this forum most of the day…
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Urartu
post 07/19/07 04:22 PM
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QUOTE(arrow @ 07/18/07 03:09 AM) [snapback]113877[/snapback]
Unlike you I converse with them face to face.


Is it like you have a choice with me?


QUOTE(arrow @ 07/18/07 03:09 AM) [snapback]113877[/snapback]
I don't have to hide myself and I never insult anyone, online or real life.


You deny the Armenian Genocide. That’s insulting to me.


QUOTE(arrow @ 07/18/07 03:09 AM) [snapback]113877[/snapback]
And as long as you keep talking about Turkiye, it will come back at ermeni people.


No, it’s only if the individual speaking brings it up. You can talk about Serbs without mentioning Bosnians cant you?


QUOTE(arrow @ 07/18/07 03:09 AM) [snapback]113877[/snapback]
And for evidence, I am not a judge nor the accuser. Evidence must be a prrof of a thing happened. You need to prove your evidence and prove it in a court.


Then you do it in Canada.


QUOTE(arrow @ 07/18/07 03:09 AM) [snapback]113877[/snapback]
But since you can never ever go to a court trial and depend on other ( as you did in WW1 to russia and france and USA ) nations/states you are bound to loose your strugle.


“It is a very general rule. If two parties can not solve the problem which they have with each other, a third party intervention is necessary.” – Taner Akcam


QUOTE(arrow @ 07/18/07 03:09 AM) [snapback]113877[/snapback]
Becouse in the global game of politics you are just a little player comparing to Turkiye.


But thankfully it’s not Turkey’s politics that will ensure its ability to change history.


QUOTE(arrow @ 07/18/07 03:09 AM) [snapback]113877[/snapback]
So go prepare whatever you have ermeni and make your best shot. Make it a war or a court trial, in both you have no chance to win....


We’ll see…




P.S. WHY WOULD THE NEW YOUR TIMES MAKE THAT STORY UP?????????
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post 07/19/07 04:48 PM
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God bless you kiddo, you brought joy to my evening.

I don't have to go to a court becouse I feel no obligation, and neither my country forces me to do so ( CAnada ). And all the world may recognise a genocide but it will not saitsfy you untill we recognise it , so good luck trying icon_smile.gif

About your thugs..

http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2007/...52e5f3c2c4.html

And there is this armwrestling champion too, I don't even remember his name but he looked like a gorilla icon_smile.gif

And all of your other comments are blah blah and a few whining mixed with a few bravado. We call people like you virtual fedayi in here.

Oh and my job, I own a company that is in export of construction goods. I am right now on holiday.

Unfortunatly my holiday will end in 10 days and I won't be able to have this much fun, just a few moments a week icon_sad.gif
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Hosank
post 07/19/07 07:39 PM
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yep, unfortunaly, you are right, the electoral system in armenia is not flawless yet...

but it has greatly improved....
armenia is 4th in political freedom in the ex soviet union, so that's not bad.
and in recent years very much has been done to reduce corruption..
and i do not think that there was very much frod in the last one...and most foreign observers could back that
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post 07/20/07 02:11 AM
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QUOTE(Hosank @ 07/20/07 04:39 AM) [snapback]113960[/snapback]
yep, unfortunaly, you are right, the electoral system in armenia is not flawless yet...

but it has greatly improved....
armenia is 4th in political freedom in the ex soviet union, so that's not bad.
and in recent years very much has been done to reduce corruption..
and i do not think that there was very much frod in the last one...and most foreign observers could back that



You really havea bad habit of generalising. Don't talk for others , talk for yourself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Armenia

http://osce.org/documents/odihr/2007/05/24667_en.pdf

http://www.osce.org/documents/odihr/2006/05/19395_en.pdf

http://news.trendaz.com/cgi-bin/readnews2....685&lang=EN

The EU commision doesn't even recognise the elections in Karabag and calls that area occupied by ermenistan....

But you are right, ermenistan is the best in ex soviet states probably becouse of the help of diaspora and their experiance.
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Hosank
post 07/20/07 10:12 AM
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yes, because the diaspora supports armenia alot, and armenia knows that it may lose support from it if they screw up...

and, i don't get why you posted those, all you are doing is showing me the electoral system of armenia, which i am already familiar with, and giving me the conclusions by the osce that the election generally went well, or at least better then expected for an emerging democracy.

since no country, including armenia, recognises the state of artsax, obviously, they cannot recognise it's elections, i don't get the point you are trying to make. but what the EU thinks of the election does not change what goes on in artsax.
in artsax, there is a fuctionning government, a standing army, an economy and everything a normal country would have, recognised or not, so artsax does not really care what the eu sees it as, for it's citizens consider themselves citizens of artsax, of armenian ethnicity, and not citizens of azerbaijan, and they all live their life that way.

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intergalacticman
post 07/20/07 08:20 PM
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QUOTE(arrow @ 07/15/07 06:49 PM) [snapback]113721[/snapback]
I told that he is nobody becouse I never heard about him before and no, it is ermeni people who disgrace anyone that goes against their ideas. As happened in Tall Armenian Tale web page, or the proffersor that had to literraly flee out of USA just becouse he said there was no genocide ( Professor Justin McCarthy ), or civilians killed by ASALA for thesame reason...

Me, as I said to many times, will stict to the documents till we find better sources than the ones at the hand.

PS: Indeed debate is aruge but we'd really do much more progress if we stick to the topics rahter than making a mess of things, do you not agree ?


true, but those very "documents" that are the bastion of your defense, are of quite questionable authenticity, thus compromising your argument. It is absurd to think contrary to the statment that the armenian genocide happened, lest risk your entire academic reputation and credibility. It is simmilar when overly ambitious scholars get booted out of a university after claiming they have documents on a vast underwater civilization.
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post 07/21/07 05:10 AM
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QUOTE(Hosank @ 07/20/07 07:12 PM) [snapback]113986[/snapback]
yes, because the diaspora supports armenia alot, and armenia knows that it may lose support from it if they screw up...

and, i don't get why you posted those, all you are doing is showing me the electoral system of armenia, which i am already familiar with, and giving me the conclusions by the osce that the election generally went well, or at least better then expected for an emerging democracy.

since no country, including armenia, recognises the state of artsax, obviously, they cannot recognise it's elections, i don't get the point you are trying to make. but what the EU thinks of the election does not change what goes on in artsax.
in artsax, there is a fuctionning government, a standing army, an economy and everything a normal country would have, recognised or not, so artsax does not really care what the eu sees it as, for it's citizens consider themselves citizens of artsax, of armenian ethnicity, and not citizens of azerbaijan, and they all live their life that way.


There is a great difference between couldn't and wouldn't, don't use word games lawyer wanna be icon_smile.gif

I posted all those which seems like you didn't bother reading all. Read the suggestions, problems parts. And you don't have to make excuses for the problems over there, I know democracy is hardest in the begining. My state had similar problems back in the days.

Al the things I post here is to show you that ermenistan or ermenis are not perfect, no other sidious plan or conspiracy. When we realise that we are not better than each other we will start to act like civilised people, hopefully ...

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post 07/21/07 05:12 AM
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QUOTE(intergalacticman @ 07/21/07 05:20 AM) [snapback]114010[/snapback]
true, but those very "documents" that are the bastion of your defense, are of quite questionable authenticity, thus compromising your argument. It is absurd to think contrary to the statment that the armenian genocide happened, lest risk your entire academic reputation and credibility. It is simmilar when overly ambitious scholars get booted out of a university after claiming they have documents on a vast underwater civilization.


Exactly intergalactic, why would anyone go through the troubles and risk his/her entire carreer?

And even if he/she is wrong does it give people th right to try to kill him ?
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Hosank
post 07/21/07 02:22 PM
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arrow, do not think for a second that i believe armenia to be the perfect utopic country. i know for a fact that armenia is an emerging democracy, and that it has a road to go before it becomes totally stable. something your own government still struggles at today, even though it have quite alot more time to experiment with it.

and yes, i did read it all the way, and the problems and comments are to be expected in such a situation, but your articles also state that the armenian government made an effort to deal with the problems that it had pointed out, which is a good thing, something that the goverment of a country not so far away as, say azerbaijan, wouldn't even bother to deal with.

second.
the tall armenian tale guy was dimasked by a fellow turk, and if he had honest and intelligent things to say, he would not bother masking himself to begin with right?
and a historian that makes a fool of his department is a discrase and thus should not be allowed to continue in such a department no matter what his argument is about right? so when you debate that the armenian genocide is a lie, with no real credible arguments, then you should be ashamed.

yes, we noticed that the turkish argument always bases itself on the same thing till they find something better, even when their supporting 'documents' are proven to be either falcified, or off-topic, lol, not exactly credible evidence i should say.

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post 07/21/07 08:07 PM
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The id of TAT guy is still a mystery. The guy Taner Akcam declared was not TAT admin or even related to the site.

I am sure he is keeping his id a secret becouse there is this bad ermeni habit of harming even killing the "deniers" as you call them....

I am not ashamed of anything I did or said but I seriously think you should be for being a racist..
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irlandahay
post 07/21/07 08:18 PM
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QUOTE(arrow @ 07/15/07 11:49 PM) [snapback]113721[/snapback]
I told that he is nobody becouse I never heard about him before and no, it is ermeni people who disgrace anyone that goes against their ideas. As happened in Tall Armenian Tale web page, or the proffersor that had to literraly flee out of USA just becouse he said there was no genocide ( Professor Justin McCarthy ), or civilians killed by ASALA for thesame reason...



alright this is just too much.

tallarmenian tale? did you even go see whats on there? Gumen spent years and years insulting him and all sorts of other professors, REAL ones. You consider him a hero but hes a coward really. And now that he gets a taste of his own medicine, hes the little victim? haha shows how far ahead turks think...
and McCarthy is trying to get people to his side, he didnt receive any threats whatsoever. and anyways he deserves them hes a #####, literally, he sucks turkish c*ck for money. HAHA and your government has decided to cut his funds recently because they discovered hes not effective enough, especially after he was so humiliated by Peter Balakdjian and Taner akcam on national television. And so what? He didnt flee, he left to turkey because he can teach to people stupid enough to swallow what hes teaching them. ASALA saw no other option because they were beign spat on by dirty turks. killing civilians is wrong but genocide is just as bad so what makes you able to talk when you are the one defending a genocidal nation?

and what about your historians, professors and journalists who have to flee because of threats? what about the one that was murdered in cold blood on your streets?

you really are a hypocrite arent you...
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post 07/21/07 08:30 PM
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QUOTE(irlandahay @ 07/22/07 05:18 AM) [snapback]114067[/snapback]
alright this is just too much.

tallarmenian tale? did you even go see whats on there? Gumen spent years and years insulting him and all sorts of other professors, REAL ones. You consider him a hero but hes a coward really. And now that he gets a taste of his own medicine, hes the little victim? haha shows how far ahead turks think...
and McCarthy is trying to get people to his side, he didnt receive any threats whatsoever. and anyways he deserves them hes a #####, literally, he sucks turkish c*ck for money. HAHA and your government has decided to cut his funds recently because they discovered hes not effective enough, especially after he was so humiliated by Peter Balakdjian and Taner akcam on national television. And so what? He didnt flee, he left to turkey because he can teach to people stupid enough to swallow what hes teaching them. ASALA saw no other option because they were beign spat on by dirty turks. killing civilians is wrong but genocide is just as bad so what makes you able to talk when you are the one defending a genocidal nation?

and what about your historians, professors and journalists who have to flee because of threats? what about the one that was murdered in cold blood on your streets?

you really are a hypocrite arent you...



Read your post one more time.

You just approved a terror organisation killing civilians, called a person that doesn't share your opinions the ugliest remarks and made the funniest accusations.

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Hosank
post 07/21/07 08:56 PM
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QUOTE
I am not ashamed of anything I did or said but I seriously think you should be for being a racist..

typical turkish counter argument..euwww..you're just a little racist....i don't have any better argument to come up with, so i will just call you a racist, so that everyone will point at you.hey look everyone, look at the ermeni racist...now look at me, im not a hypocrite at all, my grandparents didn't murder 1.5 million of your people, no they sure didn't ..

QUOTE
You just approved a terror organisation killing civilians

no he isn't. i suggest that YOU read it once more..

QUOTE
killing civilians is wrong but genocide is just as bad so what makes you able to talk when you are the one defending a genocidal nation?

he just said that what the ottoman GOVERNMENT did is far worse then what a bunch of vengeful terrorists did, he did not glorify their actions in any way. learn to read.

and how many of your deniers have been harmed? or even threatened? excluding asala of course.
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post 07/22/07 12:26 PM
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QUOTE(Hosank @ 07/22/07 05:56 AM) [snapback]114079[/snapback]
typical turkish counter argument..euwww..you're just a little racist....i don't have any better argument to come up with, so i will just call you a racist, so that everyone will point at you.hey look everyone, look at the ermeni racist...now look at me, im not a hypocrite at all, my grandparents didn't murder 1.5 million of your people, no they sure didn't ..
no he isn't. i suggest that YOU read it once more..
he just said that what the ottoman GOVERNMENT did is far worse then what a bunch of vengeful terrorists did, he did not glorify their actions in any way. learn to read.

and how many of your deniers have been harmed? or even threatened? excluding asala of course.



Good try but not enough really.

I only call e person what I believe him / her to be. I don't hide behind remarks as more than a few are doing around here.

You are a racist becouse of your posts about Native Americans.

IrlandaHay also used " dirty Turks" and more worse in his previous posts. So when you quote his post, don't just use what suits you better. Now go look racist in dictioanry and see the 3rd definition. "3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races."

He is a racist, no doubts on that...

Lear to read yourself and let the man speak for himself.. Or is he dumb so you have to help him ?
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irlandahay
post 07/22/07 04:31 PM
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i am half irish half armenian, ireland is free from england, but armenia has yet to be free from the clutches of turkey



QUOTE(arrow @ 07/22/07 06:26 PM) [snapback]114108[/snapback]
Good try but not enough really.

I only call e person what I believe him / her to be. I don't hide behind remarks as more than a few are doing around here.

You are a racist becouse of your posts about Native Americans.

IrlandaHay also used " dirty Turks" and more worse in his previous posts. So when you quote his post, don't just use what suits you better. Now go look racist in dictioanry and see the 3rd definition. "3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races."

He is a racist, no doubts on that...

Lear to read yourself and let the man speak for himself.. Or is he dumb so you have to help him ?


I swear, where did you learn to read?
your always the one claiming no one properly reads your arguments but in the end your the moron who misreads and keeps talking. then when submitted with real evidence, all you can answer with is "BS" or "whining". you bring a new meaning to the word stupidity...

now answer my post if you can. properly I mean. its relatively simple english so even you should be able to understand it.

PS: I am no racist, I recognize that there are good turks who help fight for justice. unfortunately there are too few of them and too many of you dirty skinhead pest turks who plague our pure lowlands. I dont hate you just for the fun of hating you. if so, why wouldnt I hate Italians? or indonesians? because plain and f***ing simple the italians and indonesians havnt slaughtered my people en-masse, they havnt kicked them out of their 8000 year old homeland and then claimed it to be their own.

Now if your best comeback is your a little racist, your gonna have to do alot better then that bud...
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Hosank
post 07/22/07 06:38 PM
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QUOTE
I only call e person what I believe him / her to be

what ever you say, but that does not make you jugement to be correct.

QUOTE
You are a racist becouse of your posts about Native Americans.

simply dissmissing my comments about aboriginal indians as racist is quite neive and infantile, for every comment i made is properly justified.

but you are a racist for genocidal, or denialist comments made about just about every nation surrounding your 'country'.

QUOTE
IrlandaHay also used " dirty Turks" and more worse in his previous posts

yes, he used suversive comments, though i do not agree with that terminology im sure it is quite understandable, after what the turks did to his family, he is not obliged to love you, though he could mind his language.
but that does not make his post overall a racist statement.

QUOTE
"3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races."

you know, i find it quite interesting that though you spend so much time and energy denying fact, or purposely arguing with me, you still end up agreeing with me. yes hatred and intolerance of other racES...does that not justify your actions against armenians? , Assyrians, greeks, zazas and kurds do a lesser extent?

QUOTE
Or is he dumb so you have to help him ?

lol, maybe...jk smiley23.gif

irlanadhye, it would be nice if you excluded the personal attacks and rants from your posts, it would greatly help your credibility and our overall cause. thank you.
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post 07/23/07 01:29 PM
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QUOTE(Hosank @ 07/23/07 03:38 AM) [snapback]114128[/snapback]
what ever you say, but that does not make you jugement to be correct.
simply dissmissing my comments about aboriginal indians as racist is quite neive and infantile, for every comment i made is properly justified.

but you are a racist for genocidal, or denialist comments made about just about every nation surrounding your 'country'.
yes, he used suversive comments, though i do not agree with that terminology im sure it is quite understandable, after what the turks did to his family, he is not obliged to love you, though he could mind his language.
but that does not make his post overall a racist statement.
you know, i find it quite interesting that though you spend so much time and energy denying fact, or purposely arguing with me, you still end up agreeing with me. yes hatred and intolerance of other racES...does that not justify your actions against armenians? , Assyrians, greeks, zazas and kurds do a lesser extent?
lol, maybe...jk smiley23.gif

irlanadhye, it would be nice if you excluded the personal attacks and rants from your posts, it would greatly help your credibility and our overall cause. thank you.


Look Hosank, I know you believe everything you say and think that your posts about everything are on target and humane and all. But when you keep complaining about "how your lands are stolen and it is bad but native americans didn't have the specifications of the ermeni nations so it is ok for them not holding their motherlands" argument of yours is just missing something.

Read it yourself a few times and let it sink. You will what I mean. And that is why I call you a racist and faschist.

Man even insults and harming others is "understandable" according to you if it depends on a crime you believe that happened a century ago.

And while mentioning your family you always forget that becouse of you my grandparents sufferend and died but I have no say on this, do I ?

And you turning every post into a piss contest is not helping my opinion about you neither. You are just an angry little man that thinks he has all the answers to all the questions, and believe me you are not the first one to think so.

You wouldn't believe how much you are like the youngsters around here.

And don't mind IrishHay, he is just himself, he can't help it and I don't feel insulted by his words or remarks at all.

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irlandahay
post 07/24/07 08:00 AM
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QUOTE(arrow @ 07/23/07 07:29 PM) [snapback]114166[/snapback]
Look Hosank, I know you believe everything you say and think that your posts about everything are on target and humane and all. But when you keep complaining about "how your lands are stolen and it is bad but native americans didn't have the specifications of the ermeni nations so it is ok for them not holding their motherlands" argument of yours is just missing something.

Read it yourself a few times and let it sink. You will what I mean. And that is why I call you a racist and faschist.

Man even insults and harming others is "understandable" according to you if it depends on a crime you believe that happened a century ago.

And while mentioning your family you always forget that becouse of you my grandparents sufferend and died but I have no say on this, do I ?

And you turning every post into a piss contest is not helping my opinion about you neither. You are just an angry little man that thinks he has all the answers to all the questions, and believe me you are not the first one to think so.

You wouldn't believe how much you are like the youngsters around here.

And don't mind IrishHay, he is just himself, he can't help it and I don't feel insulted by his words or remarks at all.


actually I agree. The Americans of today arrived and stole the lands from the natives. they had no right to do this. The natives deserve more then being shoved into little reserves and sniffing glue all day...

That crime was unpunished and every year, every time you try and pull your denyalist crap, the rage bottles up more and more. so yes, that crime that was unpunished deserves vengeance. Blood for blood, you killed mine I'l kill yours. You turks dont understand words, you dont understand reason, all you understand is violence, and in that sense, yes ASALA has accomplished alot.

You have no say in this. Your grandparents suffered and died because there was a war going on and turkey was actively participating. they died because of lack of food and supplies which was common in turkey at the time. Your grandparents werent force removed from their homes, their shops and businesses werent ransacked, they werent marched off into the desert and then executed in cold blood.
so no turk, you have no say in this.

ohh I can help it, I just dont feel like it. Because I dont consider you at my level, you are much MUCH lower than me, thats why I will never treat you as an equal or a human being, my dog's life is worth more than yours turk...
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post 07/24/07 01:59 PM
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arrow, in your entire comment, you tried to bringyoureself higher then anyone else on this forum, you told us that you were above all our petty squabbling, and infentile nationalistic ideas, but what you do not seem to realise, is that you are probably at the bottom of the pack, for instance, you made it clear that you consider irandahye to be a childish racist, you then moved on to making ever worse comments yourself.

clearly, you have not understood the aboroginal issue, so for both irlandahye and arrow, i will explain.

arrow, you said that, the ottoman empire ruled over many nations, for it was the strongest, and the other nations were unable to rebel, and those who did had it in their right as being stron enough to challenge the ottoman jugh, such as the greeks, bulgarians and so on. you said that the armenians were not strong enough, and therefore, you do not believe they have earned the right to self ditermination.

so, putting asside the racist ideology and fascistic thought (interesting, how much of a hypocrite you can be, after spending post after post accusing us of the same behaviour) let us, for the sake of this argument, take it as fact.

if we follow that doctrine, then the white man has every right to be in north america. for that reason, and also, we can simply look through history to see that it is full of nations moving, conquering and replacing as dominant peoples, you can look at the arabs, who today populate the region from irak all the way to morocco. they defeated the Assyrians, the kurds, the phenocecians, babilonians, meds, berbers and so on. same with the white man, they were stronger then the tiny populations of indians, who were disunited and fought amonst eachother.

the main difference between the armenian question and the native question is this. the white did not eliminate the diverse first nations as a whole, just like there are still berbers and kurds living within the arab nations of today. the turks erradicated all trace of armenians. do you understand? the armenians were a nation capable of self ditermination, had intellectual though, a religion, language distinct culture and all that. the armenians were 1 people, able of ruling 1 armenia, a right you deprived them of.

unlike armenians, there is no 1 aboriginal people, with one language, religion and culture. there are several quite destinct and warring aboriginal peoples, who were all subdued by different groups of white people, in war.

obviously i may be waisting my time here, because you cannot understand my point if you do not understand what genocide is to begin with.

QUOTE
Man even insults and harming others is "understandable" according to you if it depends on a crime you believe that happened a century ago.

lol, harming others?
why would such a prominent turkic intellectual such as yourself feel harmed by such juvenile slur? and didn't you say this?
QUOTE
I don't feel insulted by his words or remarks at all.


second, i did not say that what irlandaye said was right, i said that though i disagree with his use of words (something i clearly pointed out in my last point, and cannot see why i am forced to repeat myself) i can understand why he would say that, how would you feel if your entire family was murdered in the worst circonstances available, such as genocide, and the people who perpatrate it tell you it is a lie, and call you a racist for wanting justice? once you think that out, you will understand my stance on the matter.

QUOTE
And you turning every post into a piss contest is not helping my opinion about you neither. You are just an angry little man that thinks he has all the answers to all the questions, and believe me you are not the first one to think so.

comments like this one greatly lower my respect in you as well. (not to mention that it is full to the top with oxymorons). so far, it seems to me that i do have all the answers to your question, because not once have you proven me wrong. everytime i answer your little excuses for comments, you simply change the topic into an accusation of me being a racist, something i believe to be the last resort of a cornered, idealess denialist.

QUOTE
Blood for blood, you killed mine I'l kill yours. You turks dont understand words, you dont understand reason, all you understand is violence, and in that sense, yes ASALA has accomplished alot.

irlandaye, what do you suggest? that we kill 1.5 million turks because they did it to us? then how does that make us better then the turk? there is a fine line between justice and revenge irlandahye
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intergalacticman
post 07/30/07 10:28 PM
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KAPOW!
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arrow
post 07/31/07 01:08 AM
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Hi, I am pretty busy lately but I think I can spare a few moments to add a general reply to both of your posts..


@ Irish, My parents were killed in Russia, they were Ahiska Turks... Never been subjects of Ottoman Empire. Oh yes I do have a lot to talk about it. Just go and read a bit more history in your church ruled school but be carefull about strangers in priest robes icon_smile.gif Oh and please spare me the bravado, it is getting old....

@ Hosank, I honestly couldn't care less about your opinion about me. About the quotes you took from my posts, why don't you qoute the rest of the sentences. What you did is forging . You take one part of a sentence and then combine it with one part of another sentence then give them totally different meanings than what they originally mean ... Good job for a lawyer wanna be, you might use this skill a lot in your future carrier...


My idea is still the same about the conflict between our nations. There is nothing you can do to change the things they are, thus you keep whining.

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intergalacticman
post 07/31/07 02:17 PM
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well its not necessarily FORGING. you did say those things did you not? But it IS out of context.
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davit
post 08/01/07 01:57 PM
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QUOTE(Hosank @ 07/24/07 01:59 PM) [snapback]114231[/snapback]
irlandaye, what do you suggest? that we kill 1.5 million turks because they did it to us? then how does that make us better then the turk? there is a fine line between justice and revenge irlandahye



how about justice by revenge
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intergalacticman
post 08/01/07 02:26 PM
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QUOTE(davit @ 08/01/07 02:57 PM) [snapback]114571[/snapback]
how about justice by revenge

wtf, thats not cool
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Hosank
post 08/01/07 07:50 PM
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you cannot, as a matter of principle have justice by revenge.

arrow, i did not, in any way forge what you have said. if you would only take a better look at your previous posts, you will notice that i have quoted your words in their integrity. and once again, you have proved my point. you simply avoided what i said, and went on with a direct attack at my person...very well.

and if you expect me to see your view just by mentionning the death of your parents (my condoleances btw) do not think that you can compare their demise to that of 1.5 million armenians, victims of the ottoman empire. if notl you should actually simplathise, because you, yourself tell us that you are not even of ottoman turkish origin (of course, your use of the ottoman coat of arms now puzzles me, and does not help your credibility...but) if you do not feel attached to such a nation, then why do you feel compelled to help in the turkish denialist's plot to cover up that empire's crime? i mean, there is a huge deal of undeniable evidence that you are shown every day and that you somehow choose to ignore...anyways..up to you to think for yourself

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