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Turkish Citizen Killed In Yerevan!, SHOCKED!!! Big Racism in Armenia!
Hosank
post 11/20/07 07:18 PM
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canada and the us have both passed embassies and so on without the aprouval of (in the states, the senate,) the parliament, in technicality, the government does not recognise it.

anyways, no use squibbling about it now..wait till my friend gives me my notes back, and i will show you.
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post 11/21/07 05:15 AM
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QUOTE(Hosank @ 11/21/07 03:18 AM) [snapback]117578[/snapback]
canada and the us have both passed embassies and so on without the aprouval of (in the states, the senate,) the parliament, in technicality, the government does not recognise it.

anyways, no use squibbling about it now..wait till my friend gives me my notes back, and i will show you.



So are you telling me that all organisations togerther including political organs between these states are actually nothing and USA along with Canada are actually still at war with an Ottoman empire ???
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KHAZARI
post 11/21/07 06:05 AM
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LOL YES AND ROME STILL IN WAR WITH THE HUNS icon_wink.gif
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Hosank
post 11/21/07 12:20 PM
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canada and the us are not at war with the ottoman empire, since the ottomans signed a peace treaty. what i am talking about is a treaty that was supposed to be signed in 1923 (not 1919), in which the United States was supposed to recognise the new borders of the republic of turkey.
when this was brought to the house, it was regected, because the republic of turkey, according to us domestic law, was infact occupying foreign land. this could not be overturned, because when the treaty of sevres was signed, wilson placed his great american seal on the document, making it legal tenure in the united states (along with the other countries that signed the treaty). infact, this is not even considered international us law, but rather, domestic law. in other words, in theory, one could simply bring this up at any small court in the us and win.

however, the us government, after ww2, and the threat of communism, has simply turned a blind eye at this, and have placed embassadors in turkey which should not be there.
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post 11/22/07 01:15 AM
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QUOTE(Hosank @ 11/21/07 08:20 PM) [snapback]117603[/snapback]
canada and the us are not at war with the ottoman empire, since the ottomans signed a peace treaty. what i am talking about is a treaty that was supposed to be signed in 1923 (not 1919), in which the United States was supposed to recognise the new borders of the republic of turkey.
when this was brought to the house, it was regected, because the republic of turkey, according to us domestic law, was infact occupying foreign land. this could not be overturned, because when the treaty of sevres was signed, wilson placed his great american seal on the document, making it legal tenure in the united states (along with the other countries that signed the treaty). infact, this is not even considered international us law, but rather, domestic law. in other words, in theory, one could simply bring this up at any small court in the us and win.

however, the us government, after ww2, and the threat of communism, has simply turned a blind eye at this, and have placed embassadors in turkey which should not be there.



Hosank don't get me wrong but this post , of all your posts, is like ssience fiction. I mean a lot of posts, although I didn't share the same point of wiev, had some kind of sense in them. But this one is waaaayyy wierd.

If there wasn't ww1 there wouldn't be a Sevres, and if there wasn't ww2 US wouldn't open embassies in Turkiye... This is pointles.
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Hosank
post 11/22/07 07:36 PM
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to be honest, i did not believe it myself till i saw it, but it is true.

and why does it not make sense?
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post 11/24/07 07:32 AM
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QUOTE(Hosank @ 11/23/07 03:36 AM) [snapback]117644[/snapback]
to be honest, i did not believe it myself till i saw it, but it is true.

and why does it not make sense?



Becouse I can use my Turkish passaport and make entries to both of the states mentioned and vice a verca.
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Hosank
post 11/25/07 12:31 PM
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lol, certainly, but im sure you realise that some times countries go ahead and do things, in fault of international, and often their own law.
you can see this in your own country, when your army invaded cyprus, (obiously the genocide..but there was no law against it, as stupid as it sounds, in the day)...heck..how many military coups have there been in turkey so far?

then of course, the US itself does not respect it's own laws some times, for instance, it defied international law when invading irak, after the UN voted against it...

my point being that just because people don't respect a law, does not make it any less valid.
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post 11/26/07 06:27 AM
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QUOTE(Hosank @ 11/25/07 08:31 PM) [snapback]117707[/snapback]
lol, certainly, but im sure you realise that some times countries go ahead and do things, in fault of international, and often their own law.
you can see this in your own country, when your army invaded cyprus, (obiously the genocide..but there was no law against it, as stupid as it sounds, in the day)...heck..how many military coups have there been in turkey so far?

then of course, the US itself does not respect it's own laws some times, for instance, it defied international law when invading irak, after the UN voted against it...

my point being that just because people don't respect a law, does not make it any less valid.


Point taken, but you are talking about states here not people.
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Hosank
post 11/26/07 09:48 AM
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so states are allowed to break rules as opposed to people?
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post 11/27/07 03:03 AM
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QUOTE(Hosank @ 11/26/07 05:48 PM) [snapback]117727[/snapback]
so states are allowed to break rules as opposed to people?


On the contrary they do make their own laws or / and change them. But I still think you need to show me what you got.
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Hosank
post 11/27/07 02:32 PM
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yeh, gimme a minute, i gave my notes to a friend who was writing a paper on the subject.
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intergalacticman
post 05/06/08 12:57 PM
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White man shot in los angeles! BIG RASCISM!!!!!!

Mexican dies in the UK! BIG RASCISM!!!!!

Chinese woman abducted in argetina! BIG RASCISM!!!!!
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fedayi
post 04/21/09 09:28 AM
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QUOTE (arrow @ 11/20/07 05:00 AM) *
Wow, that is a great shock becouse I am living in canada and somehow came here with a Turkish passaport.. Now how did I manage that icon_eek.gif


First of all, my father came to canada without a passport at all, and now he is a citizen as well as a practicing architect.

Secondly, I think this thread is way off topic at this point... The main thing to take away is that one shooting does not constitute racism and intolerance. If this was in fact a racist killing, the killer would have probably claimed credit for it, just like all terrorist organizations do for their actions. There is no mention of actual racism here, only a shooting... that could mean anything. Racism is a possibility, but not the only one. For you to jump to that conclusion shows that you yourself are a racist.

Also I think you'll find that Turkey has a much worse record for racism than Armenians do. I mean, between centuries of oppression, multiple massacres and Genocide beginning in the 19th century and ending in 1923, as well as current persecution of Armenians in Turkey, the murder of Hrant Dink, and your own stubbornly racist comments, I think our side have more of a claim to being discriminated against than the Turks. Also Mordoth has a quote on his posts that speaks of the "noble blood" of Turks. He clearly considers Turks to be of higher value as humans than others - that, my friends, is true racism.

By the way arrow, I noticed a quote on your own posts: "Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." But don't all Turks do just that? You only deny the genocide because you are blindly following the authority of your government. As you said yourself, that is the greatest enemy of truth.
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post 04/27/09 01:13 PM
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QUOTE (fedayi @ 04/21/09 05:28 PM) *
First of all, my father came to canada without a passport at all, and now he is a citizen as well as a practicing architect.


By the way arrow, I noticed a quote on your own posts: "Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth." But don't all Turks do just that? You only deny the genocide because you are blindly following the authority of your government. As you said yourself, that is the greatest enemy of truth.


Fedayi, this post was dead for a loooooong time ( after Hosank asked for a minute icon_smile.gif ) If your father is good I can ask for his services, since the borders are gonna be open soon and things going little less " tense" why not turn this into profit icon_smile.gif


About the denial.. There is nothing to deny at all. If you guys are so certain of a crime commited, then go to human rights court or war crimes court etc. Politicians will do anything for your vote, unfortunatly for us all they can do their jobs really good sometimes.


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Hosank
post 05/22/09 03:15 AM
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QUOTE
after Hosank asked for a minute


well i moved out of town now, so, unfortunately it will take alittle more than a minute, but this can be found on the internet anyway..

QUOTE
There is nothing to deny at all. If you guys are so certain of a crime commited, then go to human rights court or war crimes court etc.

just in the way you casually mention 'going to the court' shows that you yourself are aware that this is not likely right now. its not like you can just walk in, say, 'here is my claim about turkish genocide', and everything will happen instantaneously. first off, someone has to lay the claim, ..and who will that ;someone' be? your average sevag, garen and hrapsimeh? probably not. the most likely candidate is the republic of Armenia, which can act as a sovereign representative of the armenian cause. how ever, then there are other things to consider
1- does armenia has the funds necessary to collect all the data, which for the most part, is in foreign national archives? (armenia didn't exist as a sovereign state at the time, and thus has no archives of its own on the matter)
2- the time and energy necessary to get around to it: just look at bosnia and riwanda, who actually did submit requests to the international court for genocidal claims in contemporary times, long after the establishment of conventions on genocide: 20 years on, bosnia's genocide claim is still inconclusive, and riwanda's criminals JUST started trials. so you can understand that for armenia to go through these channels will not be an easy bureaucratic process: but, we are taking steps to lay an official claim anyway, just because there arn't any immediate results does not mean they won't come\
3- respect of the UN court is not universal. for instance, the United States did not sign the convention legitimising its decisions, so theoretically, turkey can also just reject its decision, and brush it off..the UN is not an international GOVERNING body but rather a REGULATING one. so, though a ruling from them will only ad to the already overwhelming amount of evidence against the ottoman government, it will not force any form of recognition by turkey.

but, in the end, the main reason why a UN resolution (all though the UN already officially recognises the extermination of armenians pontic greeks and Assyrians as genocide anyway), is that, generally, it is accepted fact. i don't think any U>S> politician who is knowledgeable on the topic has doubts on what it was (an extermination of a people), just like i don't think any politician in the world had any doubts about it as it was going on, or when the culprits were being tried for it in 1919, as they themselves were quite well aware of what they were doing. finally, it is no secret within the turkish political sphere that what happened was nothing more than genocide. it is one of these unspoken truths, a taboo.

infact, the reasons for turkey's denial are quite different from simple disbelief in the factuality of the genocide, but rather the repercussions that recognition would entail, both for turkey politically, and for turks as a nation.

but still, i am supportive of normalising relations between the two states, in any case, armenia and turkey trade even with the border closed, everything just goes through georgia. so why not just do it in the open border cities will really quite profit from it. (i met this turkish guy from kars, and from his facebook pictures, its quite sad) politics does not have to be intermingles with the free movement of goods and people. greece and turkey have many issues for historical and contemporary reasons, and yet they still have normal relations in that regard.


but again, about the death of that turkish dude (over a year ago now)
there was ABSOLUTELY nothing racist about his assassination. its not like he has "turk" written on his forehead for some constantly rage-filled armenian to kill him in a street. as i mentionned before, the way in which his body was disposed of clearly signs 'mafia' to the deed. he had his nose in somewhere where it shouldn't have been, and he died in a way many armenians doing the same thing, have died. also, has anyone stepped into a casino outside yerevan lately? all run by azeris, so, why arn't they being found dead in bus stops on a massive scale. you see, in post-soviet countries, business comes before patriotism. so the way i see it, just claiming that a turk being killed in armenia because of his race, is racist in itself.

cheerio
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