It is all Pan-Turkism Options

[Dîrî]

Well... Don't YOU condemn saying something as RASCIST as what Mofak wrote?

Why don't you adress my points? I am putting facts on the table... Turkey oppresses Kurds - says it's okey to do - and then accuses others of oppressing Turks... How hypocrit isn't that?

There's no consistency nor honesty where this dudes concerned diri. He's been taught from childhood this mob-think mentality - individual rights - what's that...

You know... It is exactly that "we" mentality which I resent so much... And yes - non consistency - Kurds, Jews, Armenians etc are oppressed in Turkey - but nothing is said... In fact when somebody DOES say something (Like writer Pamuk) they are jailed or threatened - and when they feel like - they'll BAR(K)BAR(K) at the Greek, Armenians or Kurds in South Kurdistan...

Morons, that is what they are, Chase - mere morons...

[BIGTURK]

Diri
You know... It is exactly that \"we\" mentality which I resent so much... And yes - non consistency - Kurds, Jews, Armenians etc are oppressed in Turkey - but nothing is said... In fact when somebody DOES say something (Like writer Pamuk) they are jailed or threatened - and when they feel like - they'll BAR(K)BAR(K) at the Greek, Armenians or Kurds in South Kurdistan...

Morons, that is what they are, Chase - mere morons...

Your the one who uses the "we" mentality in calling many languages just one called Kurdish.

Armenians are oppressed? where? Jews? they have full rights, their religous places are paid for by the State.

Oh, so now were dogs are we, BARK BARK, hmm that just shows what kind of person this shamfull racist is, he cannot even look at us as fellow human beings thats how he allows himself to speak such vile hate-filled language against other humans

[kurdistani]

Your the one who uses the \"we\" mentality in calling many languages just one called Kurdish.


Armenians are oppressed? where? Jews? they have full rights, their religous places are paid for by the State.

Oh, so now were dogs are we, BARK BARK, hmm that just shows what kind of person this shamfull racist is, he cannot even look at us as fellow human beings thats how he allows himself to speak such vile hate-filled language against other humans

I have to say BT... you seem to be a follower of the ideology of my country right or wrong.....

[concheet]

You hit that nail on the head, Kurdistani!

[Mordoth]

I warned you to protect your head from external attacks consheet ? It seems nail is bitten into yours isn't it *
All your paranoia is Unification of Turkish states for All independance and establish 2nd Soviet union , isn't it ?

[concheet]

I warned you to protect your head from external attacks consheet ? It seems nail is bitten into yours isn't it *
All your paranoia is Unification of Turkish states for All independance and establish 2nd Soviet union , isn't it ?

I don't need your "warnings" Moredeath. I am not the least worried about what you call - Unification of Turkish states for All independance and establish 2nd Soviet union . Turkey is just another backward Muslim country churning out a bunch of uneducated and brainwashed children like yourself. Your vision of the world is destructive and ugly. Because mankind has the urge to be free and to protect human rights, eventually your attitude will be history. I hope someday you will see things from a different perspective, but I imagine that day will be long in coming.

[BIGTURK]

Consheet
Turkey is just another backward Muslim country

Its quite advanced really, home to the 18th largest economy, a young population, new Universities open every year, alot of investment in technology, modernisations, standardisations, visit one day see the real Turkiye, you'd get quite a shock

Consheet
Your vision of the world is destructive and ugly.

Take a look in the mirror and your descriptions of innocent Palestinians

Consheet
Because mankind has the urge to be free and to protect human rights

Ofcourse and Turkiye will keep improving its laws and reforms and carry on its path


Turk States Union is the future, won't you support it Conny? check whats happening in the country you love so much and what they support

[Mordoth]

I don't need your "warnings" Moredeath. I am not the least worried about what you call - Unification of Turkish states for All independance and establish 2nd Soviet union . Turkey is just another backward Muslim country churning out a bunch of uneducated and brainwashed children like yourself.

If you are educated , i am proud to be an illiterate freak one ! I am an educated engineer who is able to detect whereever you are ! Beware when you are facing with me ! I am not an anti-NATION where the word " NATION " is a variable .

Your vision of the world is destructive and ugly. Because mankind has the urge to be free and to protect human rights, eventually your attitude will be history.

And you say Israel is a well-known candidate to protect the rights of human by bombing the energy power plants , commencing assaults to transit roads . If you are not able to listen to us in a better way , WHY you expect us to listen to you ?
There is no problem which is unable to been solved ! We can solve our problem by dealing of course, that is what Turkiye wants . The "stable" Middle East is our point of view .
Bati Trakya is not a part of Middle East . Firstly it is really non-sense to discuss this issue in a Middle East forum . If we can categorize Western Trakya as a territory of Middle East , let us start discussions about Slovakia too !
The thing which we are complainting is " The rights of TURKS " in Western Trakya .
Firstly , Greeks deny their national identity is TURKISH . The Greek constitution writes " ... The Muslim minority is....bla bla " . They do not want to see a Muslim crowd in greece . Muslim Greeks (!) LOL
2ndly , Well , those people are unable to speak Greek and Turkish smoothly . They are UNABLE to get higher - level education in Greece that's why ,,they are sentenced to a simple job like being a salesman or farmer ...etc
Thirdly , " the desecration of religious facilities" . Muftis of Greece are not recognized . The Turkish Mosques were more than 143 in Athens. But today there is just a minaret in Athens , where is used as bazaar . No mosque left in Athens from 1829 to today . and Chase may legislate that ... They were much more older than 500 years None of them are left today .
There is more than 240 churches in Istanbul for 20.000 Christian minority . Why they've desecrated or destructed our historical values ? It belonged to humanity , not just to TURKS .

I hope someday you will see things from a different perspective, but I imagine that day will be long in coming.

What you expect more ?

[Hosank]

I warned you to protect your head from external attacks consheet ? It seems nail is bitten into yours isn't it *
All your paranoia is Unification of Turkish states for All independance and establish 2nd Soviet union , isn't it ?

communist-islamic-turk..it's like all the evils of the planet in one border

[Mordoth]

communist-islamic-turk..it's like all the evils of the planet in one border

Communism and Islamism ?
LoL ; it is like a ice with a temperature of 100 C degrees

Impossible case .

And let the " evils " to unite and keep themselves in a fixed frontier . Cage us

From Balkans to Central Asia ;
From Kerkuk to Crimea .

[Hosank]

no no, that evil will be too close to civilisation...

it should rather be in kazakstan, uzbekistan, tajikistan, western mongolia

actually communism goes pretty well with islam if you think about it

[Mordoth]

All you refer as civil should be adjacent to the states of anti civilization .
It is what makes you another barbaric ones .
If such inferior races are called as " civils " , i prefer " barbarism , whipcracking , lash-keeping " .

I 'm not a Muslim , Turk is a Turk .
Mongolian- Magyar and Finnic , Gagauz brothers of ours are also descends of Hunnic Tribes ,but non-muslims .

[Hosank]

" barbarism , whipcracking , lash-keeping " .

yes, i agree, that is a perfect definition of a turk..

may i also add: genocidal, murdering, uncivilised?

[Mordoth]

yes, i agree, that is a perfect definition of a turk..

may i also add: genocidal, murdering, uncivilised?

Instead of being a vile descend Roman Empire , i'd love to be a Hunnic bar-bar.
Actually , people named those Barbars , whilst they were speaking among each other with the words " bar bar " .
The word "Bar" is Turkish ; It is now modified into the word " Var " that means " to exist " , " there is/are " .

[Hosank]

well..

that's fine with me, see in my culture, you are allowed to want to be what you want.

ok..so not the latin word barbar...by usage of the simply l ocular sound 'bar' is now turkish. because no other nation could ever have come up with the pronunciation of the word 'bar' seeing as it is so complicated to do so.

in english, the word 'bar' is like a metal rod, or it may also be what a layer gets into once he graduates and starts practicing..

obviouly it is linked to the roman barbarian, and the turkish 'life' lol

[davit]

I 'm not a Muslim , Turk is a Turk .

SO IN TURKEY TEH RELIGION IS NOT MUSLIM BUT TURSLIM.

[fremen]

no no, that evil will be too close to civilisation...

it should rather be in kazakstan, uzbekistan, tajikistan, western mongolia

actually communism goes pretty well with islam if you think about it

In reading this thread I wanted to comment or ask in reference to communism and Islam. I have a dear friend of mine who "reverted" to Islam but under the guise of "Islamic Anarchism " anti-capitalist anti-state categorically.

by his site explained:

Islamic Anarchism
Category: Religion and Philosophy


Although anarchists commonly reject organized religion, and Islamic Law has been used as a basis for authoritarian regimes, there have also been numerous traditions within Islam (often associated with Sufism) that can be interpreted as anarchist in nature. For instance, Peter Lamborn Wilson describes the Hashshashin movement, also called the Assassins, as a proto-anarchist community. Also, towards the end of the 20th century among liberal movements within Islam, Muslim anarchists began to appear.

Islamic anarchism is based on an interpretation of Islam as "submission to God" which either prohibits or decisively limits the role of human authority. Muslim anarchists believe that only God has authority over humanity and reject a submissive compliance to the fatwas of Imams, relying instead on the concept of Ijtihad for a non-authoritarian interpretation of Islam. This is further elaborated by the Islamic concept of "no compulsion in religion".

Similarities between Islam and Anarchism can be roughly grouped into the views on property, social considerations, and oppression and violence. Anarchism advocates free association of free individuals, the absence of state and any form of oppression, and is most commonly a socialist theory, which advocates abolition of capitalism and private property in the capitalist sense, focusing instead on cooperation and mutual aid. Muslim anarchists claim that Islam shares many of these ideas.

According to the Islamic belief, everything on Earth belongs to God alone, and people are only entrusted with managing them, and live off the Earth and its products. This is contrary to the capitalist concept of ownership based on the Roman doctrine of "the right to use and abuse". It also lays foundation for ecology, as the creations of God (including plants and animals) should only be destroyed if absolutely necessary. This is similar to the concept of private possessions introduced by anarchist theorist Proudhon in his work "What is Property?".

Islam specifically prohibits riba (usury), and many modern Islamic banks claim not to charge interest on loans. The Qur'an states: "The usury that is practiced to increase some people's wealth, does not gain anything with God. But if you give in Zakât (charity), seeking God's pleasure, these are the ones who receive their reward many fold" (Sura Ar-Rum 30:39). Usury in this sense can also be interpreted as overcharging for products during trade. Some have argued that usury is an unavoidable component of capitalism, and that these prohibitions (which Christianity and Judaism share) represent a religious opposition to capitalism. Anarchists also usually oppose capitalism.

Traditions within Islam also encourage the formation of communities where people know each other and practice mutual help. This is reminiscent of anarchist collectives and different from the capitalist labor markets where work is bought and sold as a commodity.

Another anarchistic feature of Islam is the lack of religious hierarchy. Imams in Islam are people who have studied Islam and amassed knowledge, but their role is that of advisors, not authorities, and each Muslim should have a personal relationship with God, without middlemen. Islam teaches the brotherhood (and sisterhood) of all people. Some see these teachings as commensurable with anarchism, as Islam only implies submission to God, and never submission to priesthood.

Most anarchists agree that the use of violence is justified in self-defense. This idea is also found in the Qur'an, which says "Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loves not, aggressors". Although Muslims are often accused of spreading religion by the sword, the Qur'an is specific that there should be no compulsion in religion.

Furthermore, Islam doesn't support oppression. One hadith states "O My servants, I (Allah) have forbidden oppression for Myself and have made it forbidden amongst you, so do not oppress one another". This led some Muslims to reject all oppression, and some also reject the state as a vehicle of oppression. Indeed, although early Muslims had leaders, the daily conduct was governed by Islam and the citizens themselves, and not laws and institutions laid forward by a sovereign. Therefore, some Muslims believe that they should ultimately act based on their religion and not on earthly laws. Muslim Anarchists argue that if the religion allows violence only in self-defense, and prohibits oppression and compulsion in religion, the logical conclusion is a stateless, classless society without hierarchy.

comments???

[Mordoth]

Islamic Anarchism
Category: Religion and Philosophy


Although anarchists commonly reject organized religion, and Islamic Law has been used as a basis for authoritarian regimes, there have also been numerous traditions within Islam (often associated with Sufism) that can be interpreted as anarchist in nature. For instance, Peter Lamborn Wilson describes the Hashshashin movement, also called the Assassins, as a proto-anarchist community. Also, towards the end of the 20th century among liberal movements within Islam, Muslim anarchists began to appear.

Assasins were counciled firstly by Hassan Sabbah .
He was unable to be defeated .

Islamic rule always abused by some authorities , evaluating Islamic dogmas has nothing to do with Bati Trakya

Islamic anarchism is based on an interpretation of Islam as "submission to God" which either prohibits or decisively limits the role of human authority. Muslim anarchists believe that only God has authority over humanity and reject a submissive compliance to the fatwas of Imams, relying instead on the concept of Ijtihad for a non-authoritarian interpretation of Islam. This is further elaborated by the Islamic concept of "no compulsion in religion".

Similarities between Islam and Anarchism can be roughly grouped into the views on property, social considerations, and oppression and violence. Anarchism advocates free association of free individuals, the absence of state and any form of oppression, and is most commonly a socialist theory, which advocates abolition of capitalism and private property in the capitalist sense, focusing instead on cooperation and mutual aid. Muslim anarchists claim that Islam shares many of these ideas.

Yes ; Islamic people are independant from the Exterior authorities but the fatwahs (religious declarations ) , imams ( the lecturers ) .
Imams are the people who just moralize people in mosques . Conflicting the moral duties truely makes the Conservative Islamic publix angry and nervous . ( Conservations are somehow exaggerated by illiterate men , that 's why they 've been able to do everything in order to protect the rule before 14 centuries . )
Islamic people are true about " No compulsion in Religion " , thus not everyone is forced to Islam where Islamic rule seized .

Ijtihad is like a "Coat in flames" ; criticizing , expressing and interpreting a simple datum is also another Religious question . That's why we could not observe a similarity among Islamic countries with different nationalities . ( The mood of Nations depends upon how they 're grown up )

According to the Islamic belief, everything on Earth belongs to God alone, and people are only entrusted with managing them, and live off the Earth and its products. This is contrary to the capitalist concept of ownership based on the Roman doctrine of "the right to use and abuse". It also lays foundation for ecology, as the creations of God (including plants and animals) should only be destroyed if absolutely necessary. This is similar to the concept of private possessions introduced by anarchist theorist Proudhon in his work "What is Property?".

Islam implies that everything is a servant of God but the God self .

Acquisitiveness is not considered as a properly confirmed concept . What do these two have to do with anarchy and chaos ?

Islam specifically prohibits riba (usury), and many modern Islamic banks claim not to charge interest on loans. The Qur'an states: "The usury that is practiced to increase some people's wealth, does not gain anything with God. But if you give in Zakât (charity), seeking God's pleasure, these are the ones who receive their reward many fold" (Sura Ar-Rum 30:39). Usury in this sense can also be interpreted as overcharging for products during trade. Some have argued that usury is an unavoidable component of capitalism, and that these prohibitions (which Christianity and Judaism share) represent a religious opposition to capitalism. Anarchists also usually oppose capitalism.

" Ar-Rum " means " Byzantinians" or "Romans"

The starting of the Sura said that the war between Persians and Greeks shall be won by Greeks . ( And Persians succumbed )
This is prophecy itself .

But islam is not an anti-capitalist movement itself , because so-called Islamic sheria state Saudia is capitalist itself

Traditions within Islam also encourage the formation of communities where people know each other and practice mutual help. This is reminiscent of anarchist collectives and different from the capitalist labor markets where work is bought and sold as a commodity.

Another anarchistic feature of Islam is the lack of religious hierarchy. Imams in Islam are people who have studied Islam and amassed knowledge, but their role is that of advisors, not authorities, and each Muslim should have a personal relationship with God, without middlemen. Islam teaches the brotherhood (and sisterhood) of all people. Some see these teachings as commensurable with anarchism, as Islam only implies submission to God, and never submission to priesthood.

Communism ?
Islamic people are still tortured in Communist rule in China .
Turks in the central Asia were sentenced to a Russianization and their productivities are stopped .
Population of C.Asian Turks was 19 millions in 1919 . Since the pop. of the world is increased by five times ; it should have been 95 millions ; but now 2007 ; it does not pass 60 millions ,THIS IS GENOCIDE .
Many of them were deported inside the caravans and qatars .
Now ; many of Turkish children can not speak Turkish .

Do not complaint now ; Christians ruled the Otto-Roman sultanate.

Most anarchists agree that the use of violence is justified in self-defense. This idea is also found in the Qur'an, which says "Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loves not, aggressors". Although Muslims are often accused of spreading religion by the sword, the Qur'an is specific that there should be no compulsion in religion.

Furthermore, Islam doesn't support oppression. One hadith states "O My servants, I (Allah) have forbidden oppression for Myself and have made it forbidden amongst you, so do not oppress one another". This led some Muslims to reject all oppression, and some also reject the state as a vehicle of oppression. Indeed, although early Muslims had leaders, the daily conduct was governed by Islam and the citizens themselves, and not laws and institutions laid forward by a sovereign. Therefore, some Muslims believe that they should ultimately act based on their religion and not on earthly laws. Muslim Anarchists argue that if the religion allows violence only in self-defense, and prohibits oppression and compulsion in religion, the logical conclusion is a stateless, classless society without hierarchy.


comments???

The first sura you speak about is sent when the caravans of Mohammad were attacked by Meccans for times , and he did not charge upon them . This thing implied that one .
YEs , Arabic methods of spreading Islam was stupid , selfish and barbaric .
Turkish scholars , developed cities were attacked by Arabic forces , and many of those aggressors ( Turks ) were ordered to be cut down . No prisoners .
Kutaibah bin Muslim ; has looted the Turkish cities ; Melted the Golden Statues down and used the beheaded bodies against Turks as Catapults .

The true Muslims are people of peace , don't worry . It depends upon the nature of that nation .
e.g. Turks create no problem at where they live in . Think about Kosovo , Algeria , Syria , Iraq , Russia , Bosnia , China , Macedonia , even THE TRUE SURPRESSORS Greeks .

IF i am to defence myself ; I 'd do anything , because i owe to live with a full independance . I 'm a descend of Wolven-PEople .

[Hosank]

islamo anarchism...
hmm...
there is such a thing as christian anarchism, but i find that to be quite stupid.

islamo anarchism would never work anyways because of the authoritarian nature of the islamic religion.

in my opinion, islam does go well with a form of stalinist communism with a tyrannical leader, and wealth shared


i don't know where bush speaks about islamo fascism...the real enemy is islamo communism

[fremen]

Did not mean to hijack but just had a question that fit the running topic. I really have no idea, I just wanted comments on the issue as my friend made a bid deal of this and maybe reverted for the wrong reasons in my opinion if soley based on the concept to refute human authority categorically and yet grasp some abstract idea of communism.

Assasins were counciled firstly by Hassan Sabbah .
He was unable to be defeated .

Islamic rule always abused by some authorities , evaluating Islamic dogmas has nothing to do with Bati Trakya

Yes ; Islamic people are independant from the Exterior authorities but the fatwahs (religious declarations ) , imams ( the lecturers ) .
Imams are the people who just moralize people in mosques . Conflicting the moral duties truely makes the Conservative Islamic publix angry and nervous . ( Conservations are somehow exaggerated by illiterate men , that 's why they 've been able to do everything in order to protect the rule before 14 centuries . )
Islamic people are true about " No compulsion in Religion " , thus not everyone is forced to Islam where Islamic rule seized .

Ijtihad is like a "Coat in flames" ; criticizing , expressing and interpreting a simple datum is also another Religious question . That's why we could not observe a similarity among Islamic countries with different nationalities . ( The mood of Nations depends upon how they 're grown up )

Islam implies that everything is a servant of God but the God self .

Acquisitiveness is not considered as a properly confirmed concept . What do these two have to do with anarchy and chaos ?
" Ar-Rum " means " Byzantinians" or "Romans"

The starting of the Sura said that the war between Persians and Greeks shall be won by Greeks . ( And Persians succumbed )
This is prophecy itself .

But islam is not an anti-capitalist movement itself , because so-called Islamic sheria state Saudia is capitalist itself

Communism ?
Islamic people are still tortured in Communist rule in China .
Turks in the central Asia were sentenced to a Russianization and their productivities are stopped .
Population of C.Asian Turks was 19 millions in 1919 . Since the pop. of the world is increased by five times ; it should have been 95 millions ; but now 2007 ; it does not pass 60 millions ,THIS IS GENOCIDE .
Many of them were deported inside the caravans and qatars .
Now ; many of Turkish children can not speak Turkish .

Do not complaint now ; Christians ruled the Otto-Roman sultanate.
The first sura you speak about is sent when the caravans of Mohammad were attacked by Meccans for times , and he did not charge upon them . This thing implied that one .
YEs , Arabic methods of spreading Islam was stupid , selfish and barbaric .
Turkish scholars , developed cities were attacked by Arabic forces , and many of those aggressors ( Turks ) were ordered to be cut down . No prisoners .
Kutaibah bin Muslim ; has looted the Turkish cities ; Melted the Golden Statues down and used the beheaded bodies against Turks as Catapults .

The true Muslims are people of peace , don't worry . It depends upon the nature of that nation .
e.g. Turks create no problem at where they live in . Think about Kosovo , Algeria , Syria , Iraq , Russia , Bosnia , China , Macedonia , even THE TRUE SURPRESSORS Greeks .

IF i am to defence myself ; I 'd do anything , because i owe to live with a full independance . I 'm a descend of Wolven-PEople .

[Hosank]

sure...

but...islam is loosely based on some of the ideals that form communism...the distribution of wealth and so on...i believe there are several laws in islam that force a believe to share his money and so on, and of course the lack of clearness between the authoritarian state and religion...such as in islamic republics like iran.

muslims hate communism in it's russian form because it disallowed followers to profess their religion..but that being eliminated..i think that religion and that economic concept go well together.

[Mordoth]

sure...

but...islam is loosely based on some of the ideals that form communism...the distribution of wealth and so on...i believe there are several laws in islam that force a believe to share his money and so on, and of course the lack of clearness between the authoritarian state and religion...such as in islamic republics like iran.

muslims hate communism in it's russian form because it disallowed followers to profess their religion..but that being eliminated..i think that religion and that economic concept go well together.

That is the most stupid i've heard ever .
Islam has nothing to do with Materialist , Marxist thoughts . As an ex-muslim , i can say that .

Sharing of money is related with "Social Equipartition" .
EVERYONE hates communism , but armos . Commoz have bribed Karabagh to you .

[Hosank]

ex-muslim??

mordoth, i wish i could shake your hand...

but watch out..you may get shot by the turkish hezbollah lol

[Mordoth]

Hm , I do not think so .
I've beaten many secterian stoopids by myself .
I 'm both an illuminator and devastator

[Hosank]

lol...a true turk

[veritas]

Hm , I do not think so .
I've beaten many secterian stoopids by myself .
I 'm both an illuminator and devastator

silly me, and i thought the two were mutualy exclusive.

i must just be stupid then.


Thank you for the illumination Fremen, this was a truly interesting read.

I have read a fair bit about sufism and i wish it's principles would be more widely adopted within the Islamic community.

There are many great teachings that have originated from Sufism in the east.

[Hosank]

EVERYONE hates communism , but armos . Commoz have bribed Karabagh to you .

that is a funny thing to say, seeing as it was the communists who helped attaturk, and the azeris take away our freedom in 1920, it was the communists, under turkish pressure who gave artsax and naxichevan to the azeris, and armenians were the first communist state to demand freedom and democracy in 1990.

obviously you turks do like the communists, since the situation allowed you to be the buffer for the west, thus being the little puppy of the US, and getting weapons to continue your genocidal acts.
while at the same time, in a secret peace pact with the soviets.
the azeris seemed to like communism, since they were the last nation to leave the UNION and even after, they stayed communist till 1994. 3 years after the fall of the soviet union/

so it is quite wrong to call armenians communist lovers.

[veritas]

that is a funny thing to say, seeing as it was the communists who helped attaturk, and the azeris take away our freedom in 1920, it was the communists, under turkish pressure who gave artsax and naxichevan to the azeris, and armenians were the first communist state to demand freedom and democracy in 1990.

obviously you turks do like the communists, since the situation allowed you to be the buffer for the west, thus being the little puppy of the US, and getting weapons to continue your genocidal acts.
while at the same time, in a secret peace pact with the soviets.
the azeris seemed to like communism, since they were the last nation to leave the UNION and even after, they stayed communist till 1994. 3 years after the fall of the soviet union/

so it is quite wrong to call armenians communist lovers.

It is a particularly strange thing to say seeing that Armenia is probably the most democratic nation within a few thousand km of the cuacasus!

[JohnDoe]

I'm afraid pan Turkism has already taken a huge toll, the entire brainwashing of Turkish and Azeri youth with historical revisionist propaganda. Its unfortunate that entire generations have been denied their right to history.

I have spoken to many Turks who are simply shocked when you tell them that a certain aspect of the history they are taught is incorrect.

Good luck to Turkey, but I hope the people do not make the mistake of elected people like the MHP into power again simply because they are told to be afraid of the AKP.

Hopefully Turkey can stay on its path and get even better, and their people can finally get in touch with their own history, their true history.

[Hosank]

i hope so too, but it does not seem to be happening

[gagauzian]

Turkish speaking peoples all the world

Yes, this is Turania World.
http://titus.uni-frankfurt.de/didact/karten/turk/turklm.htm