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Greeks to readdress their national myths?
prot9999
post 04/05/06 12:21 AM
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Greeks to readdress their national myths?

Every school year since the age of six I was taught why I should hate the Turks. On the anniversary of the outbreak of the Greek rebellion against the Ottomans, on the 25th of March of every year, I had to take part either in a patriotic sketch with the Greek flag in the background or recite some patriotic poem, myself dressed up in blue and white. Our basic, middle and university education was based on the same line: The Greeks, inspired by their inherent sense of freedom and the spiritual superiority bestowed by the Orthodox faith, were strong enough and powerful enough to defeat the powerful, backward, infidel, cowardly Ottomans.

The Ottoman occupation of land that used to belong to the Byzantine Empire was, according to our teachers, the worst catastrophe that had ever happened to our nation: The Greeks under the Ottoman yoke were forcibly Islamized, deprived of their ethnic identity, their property, their language, their education. From the beginning until the end of the Ottoman period in what is now Greece, there was nothing but misery, death and destitution. Actually, the basic tenets of education have not changed up until the present day, and the Greek clergy is still claiming to be the only force that kept the cultural identity of the Greek subjects of the Ottomans intact by secretly providing education to the suppressed population.

This year was no different. The 185th anniversary of the Greek rebellion was celebrated with the same national and religious fervor in school plays, military parades, speeches and church Masses.

But in a way, things are not the same as before. There are now voices in Greece, intellectuals, academics and educators, who are speaking out against the official portrayal of recent Greek history, especially the period under Ottoman occupation. With the establishment of various research centers around the world working scientifically on the Ottoman period, with the increasing number of publications and translations circulating, people are starting to be aware that we may have grown up believing in a well-designed national mythology -- a mythology that served religious and political groups in maintaining their authority.

So it was not a total surprise to read in such an established newspaper as TO VIMA, an article by Andreas Pappas, a publications editor and translator, titled “Ten small myths about 1821.” Pappas, who teaches at the European Center of Translation, has recently published a book on linguistic issues of the Greek language. So as an “editor” of history, he speaks out against what he calls “patriotic myths that are systematically pushed through in our country.” And Pappas tries to knock down every accepted “truth” around the Ottoman period. According to him, there was no forced Islamization of the non-Muslim population during the Ottoman period. The Ottomans, he says, did not care about the religious beliefs of their subjects as long as they paid their taxes. The mass Islamizations that took place mainly in the Balkans were done with the consent of the Islamized because it would bring them better social and economic status. Janissaries were not collected forcibly through “random children collection.”

After a certain period, he claims, the families themselves would send their children to the elite and privileged corps to secure their future. There was never a thing called “secret schools” run by the Orthodox clergy, Pappas proposes. Any Ottoman non-Turkish subject could learn his own language. The role of the Orthodox clergy during the Ottoman period was controversial or negative as it turned against the ideas of the Enlightenment and its followers. The rebellion of 1821 soon died out, and it was due to Western powers like Britain, France and Russia, who decided in 1827 to set up a Greek state as a tool of their policies against the Ottomans. According to Pappas, it was due to those Allies that Greece expanded its territory and it was they who became signatories to the Treaty of Sevres for their own interests in 1920. The rebellion against the Ottomans was not an exclusive struggle of the Greeks but of many other nations of the empire, especially in the Balkans. Pappas goes even further. He talks about the myth of an ancient Greek population, uprooted from Anatolia after the 1922 war. With the exception of Cappadocia and the Black Sea, he says, the Greeks were really immigrants from the Aegean islands and the mainland in 19th century. And the population exchange involved not only Greeks but also Turks, he reminds his readers.

Pappas may be accused of not being a historian. But as a linguist, editor and translator, he is obviously aware of what emerges from historical research. He is also very keen to search for the true history of his country. And he is not the only one. I think the most important point about the Pappas article is that it was published in TO VIMA, which is a trusted old newspaper with a progressive centrist line, belonging to one of the most powerful media groups in Greece, the Lambrakis Group. If they allowed an article like that to be published on the 1821 Greek national day, it means that the time has come to turn over our history books and write them again. I mean both Greeks and Turks.

And this is where the universities and academics come in. If they are willing to put their own myths aside, myths that have served them well for many years, maybe they will provide us with properly researched and documented answers that will help us settle our accounts with each other and look towards the future with a clear mind.

Ariana Ferentinou

http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/editori...iana_ferentinou

Με φιλικούς χαιρετισμούς του ελληνικού φίλου μας icon_biggrin.gif
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kurdistani
post 04/05/06 10:26 AM
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Agreed... Turks should do the same.....
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BIGTURK
post 04/05/06 11:26 AM
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Fantastic post Prott,

The key to all these lies and hatred being spread about our people lies here

QUOTE
Every school year since the age of six I was taught why I should hate the Turks.


If your conditioned as a child to HATE, it will of-course affect your mental state of mind and make feel some kind of hatred towards the people who were programmed to dispise.

However, it is clear, that in time the lies will be eroded away and people will admit their errors and start to question.

They will put their lies to the side and realise that its getting them nowhere.

We have to hold out and wait for these people to change from within.

Were not taught to hate these people, if they can find it in their hearts to respect us as equals they will discover that they can be good friends with us and feel our hospitallity icon_smile.gif
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prot9999
post 04/05/06 01:10 PM
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I agree with you BIGTURK, hatred and lie cause enemy between peoples. Also wrong policy waste to big times for peace. I know after founded Turkey, at first Republic times Greek and Turkish friendship was topped. But after some wrong policys damaged friendship. Today Turkey and Greek want win again losting times. Today, Greek began to building first Mosque center of the Atina. We have lots of Temple for all religions hundert years. I think this will be very good for peace of the future. We hope our friendship will be back to Turkey Republic founding times icon_smile.gif

Best Regards,
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post 04/06/06 07:04 PM
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Hmm , "Hellenes of Middle East" is a topic which does not make any sense . The antique Hellenic and Greek civilization has nothing to do with modern day Greece .
That's why , i disagree Greeks are heirs of Plato and such illuminators of Antiquity .
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kurdistani
post 04/07/06 05:51 AM
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no national group is really the samething as its 'ethnic' origin....
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Hosank
post 04/24/07 08:30 PM
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QUOTE
The key to all these lies and hatred being spread about our people lies here

QUOTE
Every school year since the age of six I was taught why I should hate the Turks.

wow..what a hypocrite turk..

the greeks learn patriotism..what do you want them to do? their nation is based on the independence from oppression by your people. you don't want them to learn and be proud of their history because it may offend you little turks?

don't you think you are good about lying about your history?
this reminds me about an article i read in the newspaper, which i will type here, what is in greece is patriotism, what turks learn in school, is fanaticism.

Seeds of Turkish Nationalism Sown i at School:

istambul april 2 2007 - nationalism poses problem with turkey schools, which within IMF- imposed bugdet restraints spend little on education.

"happy is he who says he is a Turk", pipe hundreds of uniformed children in unison,lined up in the playground before a golden statue of Turkey's revered father Ataturk, for a daily pledge of hard work and sacrifice.

the enthusiastic chanting ends and the children file into school, past an inscription saying their first duty is to defend Turkey and another of the national anthem. texts which appear again on the classroom walls and preface all their textbooks.

when they move up to high school, they will take a weekly class from army officers about the military's exploits. their school books will tell them European powers have their sights set on Anatolia and Turkey's geography makes it vulnerable "to all kinds of internal and external threats".

textbooks are peppered with the sayings of Kemal Ataturk, who founded modern turkey in 1923 after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. "Homeland...we are all a sacrifice to you!" comes particularly recommended by one textbook's authors.

these are just some of the features of Turkey's education system that reformist teachers and activists want changed. they say it encourages blind nationalism- something Turkey islooking at more seriously since the ultranationalist-inspired murder of Turkish-Armenian journalist, Hrant Dink.

Political rows with the european union, which ankara hopes to join, hae also fanned nationalism - especially in an election year - but many experts say the seeds are first sown in school.

"In newly founded nation states like ours, education is an effective political lever to train and transform people... but om recent decades, this concept, which needs to be loosened, continues" Ziya Selcuk, university professor and former head of the government's Training and Education Board, told Reuters.

this government has reformed the curiculum in a way teachers say makes students more active and reduces traditional rote learning, but the emphasis on nationalism remains. "there's still some emphasis on militarism, the importance of being martyred, the importance of going to war, dying in war and so on," said batuhan aydagul, deputy coordinator of the Education Reform Initiative.

His collegue, who also spoke on condition of anonymity, laughed at the idea of criticizing Ataturk in history lesson, saying to do so would spark investigations by prosecutors. "they thingk...if you do such a thing you confuse the minds and confusion is not good for young people," the first teacher said.

but the textbooks could be confusing for some: while foreign historians say Ottoman forces massacred Armenians in 1915, high school history books here say it was the other way around.

"it must not be forgotten that in eastern Anatolia, the armenians carried out genocide," one 2005 dated book reads.

in it's latest progress report, the EU also criticized the portrayal of minorities such as Armenians, saying further work was needed to remove discriminatory language from textbooks...







lol, took me a long time to type it all....

so, for those of you who were confused about the dehaviour of bigturk, mordoth, or prot...now you see why..

now you see why mordoth thinks that he is part of a warrior nation, or why prot things that the armenians committed the genocide, and not the other way around...
or why big turk is talking about the seeds of hatred in greek schools...



cheerio y'all








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intergalacticman
post 05/11/07 11:33 AM
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the turkish policy of nationalist indoctrination is far more widespread than the greek one. Also, who would not celebrate and sing patriotic songs on the anniversary of the independence day. In America, on july4th we have huge patriotic parades, parties, banquets, events, contests, and music to celebrate our independence.

Prot9999 είναι ένας εθνικιστικός χοίρος icon_biggrin.gif

Η Τουρκία δεν θα πετύχει ποτέ και θα αποτύχει τελικά icon_mrgreen.gif
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Hosank
post 05/11/07 03:34 PM
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it's true..i still don't understand the turkish thinking..

they find it insulting that greeks celebrate their liberation from their tyranny.

the UK does not mind the US celebrating independence day, and learn about the american revolution..
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Guest_geot_*
post 08/06/07 04:13 PM
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QUOTE(prot9999 @ 04/05/06 08:10 PM) [snapback]80750[/snapback]
I agree with you BIGTURK, hatred and lie cause enemy between peoples. Also wrong policy waste to big times for peace. I know after founded Turkey, at first Republic times Greek and Turkish friendship was topped. But after some wrong policys damaged friendship. Today Turkey and Greek want win again losting times. Today, Greek began to building first Mosque center of the Atina. We have lots of Temple for all religions hundert years. I think this will be very good for peace of the future. We hope our friendship will be back to Turkey Republic founding times icon_smile.gif
Best Regards,


very good words of peace and friendship, if you could remove also the aggressive signature picture that presents half of my country as future Turkish territory, then I could really trust you and we could become good friends!
It is difficult to take lessons about not being nationalistic from Turks, all the country is purely founded in myths, patriotism and nationalism.
It will really make you happy if your country will get those territories? What will change, your people will get more happy, will become more rich, EU will accept you, your economy and the currency will stabilize, the 'terroristic' actions will stop? I don't think so.
reconsider and modernise and preserve the fantastic part of the world that is yours. No need for more aggression and show off of military strength, it drives you to deadlocks and does not solve anything, does not work anymore. Military strength was a good tool for 1915-22 not for today's world.

kisses

G
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Hosank
post 08/08/07 12:39 PM
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yet it still happens..
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Hosank
post 08/08/07 04:36 PM
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right
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